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Sharif H



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PostSubject: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:27 pm

Dammit! I just wrote this and then the site went weird, so I'm re-typing it.

Breathe and relaaax...



Ok, so basically I'm hoping some of you seasoned MA /SP instructors can offer some advice.

I've been offered a job teaching after-school self defence at a school where my friend teaches music. It's a secondary school so we're talking 12-17 years I guess. The thing is, I generally have an over-18's only policy. Reasons being...

- I consider what I teach to be pretty hardcore SP / streetfighting.

- Kids are more inclined to use the techniques in the wrong situation (I.E immorally). I mean, advanced pre-emptive striking is pretty lethal in itself. And how I could I teach the biting and mauling etc to kids?

- Kid's safety (esp the younger ones) really should come down to the security-awareness of the parents. This of course becomes less true the older the teenager gets until finally they are independent adults and therefore responsible for their own safety

- I can't relate to teenagers too well. I never was one. I was always the youngest old man in the world. I only just learned to looses up a couple of years ago,

But.... the money is pretty good for this job.

So I'm wondering is any of you guys feel that there are certain aspects of SP that are suitable for teenagers? In terms of the physical techniques.

I'm thinking maybe I'll make it for over 15 years only and maybe just teach some kickboxing type stuff? But wont they get bored with that pretty quick?

Any and all advice much appreciated rendeer



Man I hate having to re-type stuff... lol
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Blakops

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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:19 pm

Perhaps first lesson should only be awareness & reading of non-verb, reacting to aggressive language appropriatley & teaching them to rely on their instincts if they feel scared & perhaps very fundamental especially for young males, that the nike defence is a sign of wisdom & power & not cowardice. If you want a little hands on then using the fence.

This will give you time to assess the class make-up as well & probably allow you to identify the idiot/s. There is always at least one.

After all you teach self protection..not just self defence

Just my 2 pence.

& do teach making a fuss. Creating attention. remember stranger danger when you were a kid.

Judging by your own experience, reading your environment & knowing when to leave is the first thing they should know.
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:27 pm

my opinion:

-phase one = heavy resistance training on bags/pads, etc...for explosiveness...and to give you
time to walk them through the psychology of it [whilst giving the slack'offs time to quit].
-then slo drills--to prevent them killing one another
-then fast pad drills of main stream strikes [head strikes mostly] with nothing about eye-gaugles [eg//mauling]
-some head controls worked into slo drills
-whatever else you think that covers the range of an 'on-the-way-home' self defense...to include avoidance

make everything exaustive and driven--widdle away the dickheads and get some serious future contenders
for your over-18's

keep your philosophy going; keep some real life stories coming; ask them about their experiences.

i don't see a delemma

in short: use hard work as a lithmus test and see who's there after the dust, sweat, and tears settle.


good luck...the curve for getting them into a nice 'hard' routine can be slow at first. i give props to those who are
sort of tough and hard working--at others expense even. teens follow the alphas, and they'll soon get a hierarchy
that will help run the class. british school system coming out in me [prefict psychology 101]

BTW: nice points Blakops...we posted at the same time, but you 'pre-empted' your send button before mine, i'm
so ashamed Embarassed lol!

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roadkill

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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:48 pm

Couple questions… Is the course on going or a one time thing? Are the students there voluntarily? What does secondary school mean?

I find that when dealing with teens, the issue of how to avoid is paramount. IE: don’t talk shit, myspace, he said she said issues and when there is an issue deal with it right away with the individual (one on one) before it gets out of hand.

Beyond that it becomes an issue of dealing with spontaneous violence to include abduction prevention and in those situations is where your hardcore SP comes in.
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Mike2010

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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:03 pm

I'm not qualified to comment, but having just had a productive discussion with my gf, possibly try and get as many women to go as you can.

Also as has been mentioned, basic stuff on being savvy and not being abducted. When I was younger I used to get hammered and walk home alone, and to be honest wouldn't have even known the day after if something had happened.

I don't know how you'd get the message through that people make timeselves very vulnerable, but can't help thinking it's more relevant in terms of safety than learning to fight. Possibly try and get a Detective from CID (not a Police Officer, they don't do rape cases) to come in and bring home how it 'can happen to you'.

Going far beyond now as well, but I went to a PassPlus (driving) lecture at my local Fire Station, and saw a slideshow of serious accidents. Lots of pupils 16+ will be going out in mates cars, male and female, and will have no idea how dangerous an accident is.

my 2p Smile
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Blakops

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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:46 pm

Rus made a very good point which I never see or saw at TMA or self defence classes (including my current one) REAL LIFE.

Ask them about their experiences, relate yours & others that you have read/heard & work drills with them that have real energy & mirror the incident.

Lines of people punching a non moving pad is not the same chaos as a real thing.

Dont face each other and attack at two strides. Have them close & moving. most fights I have been in the guy was stalking up & down, building himself up prior to going for me. Address sexual assault/chlid kidnap as it happens in real life, not as it so often seems to be taught in the dojo, with distance & time. Drill no distance, no time.

With kids, I think awareness first & physical techniques (which dont really on strength but physics, remember they are kids & do not have the strength of adults) second

Sorry if I am stepping on anyones toes.

Glad I pre-empted you Rus. Dont want to eat one of your shots Very Happy

Roadkill & mike, exactly what I am on about, thankyou.
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markh



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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:16 pm

Sharif,

Good luck with this one because its tough. The teenage mindset is as soon as they think they have something down they want to move on. This doesn't allow to really internalize, but using a lot of the suggestions already made you should be able to mix it up.

The number one thing I can think of is taking scenerios they may actually encounter, train them to see them as they unfold pointing out the appropriate response at that point and move on. All the time during this you need to work on their decision making abilities. This part of the brain developes to its fullest into the early to mid twenties and explains why teenagers get into trouble.

The other thing is you will have to teach them to find their motivation for actually defending themselves since a fair amount of them will have insecurities about their own worth and their own abilities. The job you are getting into is half mentoring and half empowering skills.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H
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Sharif H



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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:04 pm

roadkill wrote:
Couple questions… Is the course on going or a one time thing? Are the students there voluntarily? What does secondary school mean?
.

An on-going class. Once a week me thinks.

Yep, voluntarily

And Secondary school is what we call high-school. Slightly different age range though I believe.



THANKS GUYS FOR YOUR INPUT....

A lot to consider.

Thanks again to everybody! I'll keep you updated cheers Very Happy Razz cheers rabbit pig Smile
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D.M.B.

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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:02 pm

I think you should definitely take the job.

Just build a good foundation with them. Find out what their motivations are. Teach a fence and avoidance, and filter out knuckle heads in the manner Russ described.

I don't think it matters if you feel you can relate, you will relate in some way. We're all driven towards this path of RBSD for more or less the same reasons. Besides, you've got a good sense of humor, and showing that will break the ice a bit too.

good luck!
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:11 pm

More focus on fitness, verbals, mindset and kickboxing.

Dont call it "Street" anything.

Think of the worst case scenario and imagine the newspaper report ahead of time. Give them no ammo.

"Child smashes head on concrete after being knocked out using headbutting technique from irresponsible thug instructor giving children street fighting thug classes"

No

no headbutts, no chokes, no gouging, no biting, no small joint attacks... no nothing that they can show their mates at break time that will get you in trouble

CYA (cover your arse)- at all times insist on a representative from the school being present and HAMMER legal restraint loudly and clearly over and over and over.

Hammer the fact that they are all responsible for their own and each others safety, over and over and over again, loud and clear: safety , safety , safety, LOOK AFTER each other.

NEVER take a class on your own always have another adult present, NEVER let yourself get left behind with just one student at the end of the class chatting, talk as you pack up and get outside the classroom and back into a public setting with the child as quickly as you can or just tell them to shut up and go wait outside for you.

If your taking a class with 15 to 17 year old girls, I would give it no more than 2 sessions before one of them tries to push boundaries with you. Be strict as fook with that, preempt it before it starts without breaking rapport. If they want to say flirty stuff let it roll, thats not a problem, but use your head and dont say anything back.
(sounds obvious right? oh Ive got some horror stories from running security in schools and form doing the motivational talks in schools, you wouldnt believe the shit people say to children trying to be funny and be cool with da "kidz").
If you want to build rapport, do not make the mistake of trying to do it by acting like a teenager, act like an adult, treat them like adults they will respond like adults (mostly).

Make them come up to your level, you dont step down to theirs, they will respect you more and appreciate the respect your showing them.

Anyway.

As a martial arts instructor you are easy pickings just be very, very ,very careful. Shit sticks.

beyond that make sure your insurance is in good order and both parent and child have signed their consent forms

have as much fun as possible (your state transmits, communicate your passion for the subject) and make sure they are above all else enjoying themselves, because with teens these days if its not fun and stimulating you won't keep their attention and they won't get the benefit

please dont mention my name or my website at any point Very Happy

This is after two and a half years of working in the blessed british education system, Ive been offered these types of contracts and they are pretty lucrative ...and Ive always knocked them back.

Why?

See advice above

For me its a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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Sharif H



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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:48 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
More focus on fitness, verbals, mindset and kickboxing.

Dont call it "Street" anything.

Think of the worst case scenario and imagine the newspaper report ahead of time. Give them no ammo.

"Child smashes head on concrete after being knocked out using headbutting technique from irresponsible thug instructor giving children street fighting thug classes"

No

no headbutts, no chokes, no gouging, no biting, no small joint attacks... no nothing that they can show their mates at break time that will get you in trouble

CYA (cover your arse)- at all times insist on a representative from the school being present and HAMMER legal restraint loudly and clearly over and over and over.

Hammer the fact that they are all responsible for their own and each others safety, over and over and over again, loud and clear: safety , safety , safety, LOOK AFTER each other.

NEVER take a class on your own always have another adult present, NEVER let yourself get left behind with just one student at the end of the class chatting, talk as you pack up and get outside the classroom and back into a public setting with the child as quickly as you can or just tell them to shut up and go wait outside for you.

If your taking a class with 15 to 17 year old girls, I would give it no more than 2 sessions before one of them tries to push boundaries with you. Be strict as fook with that, preempt it before it starts without breaking rapport. If they want to say flirty stuff let it roll, thats not a problem, but use your head and dont say anything back.
(sounds obvious right? oh Ive got some horror stories from running security in schools and form doing the motivational talks in schools, you wouldnt believe the shit people say to children trying to be funny and be cool with da "kidz").
If you want to build rapport, do not make the mistake of trying to do it by acting like a teenager, act like an adult, treat them like adults they will respond like adults (mostly).

Make them come up to your level, you dont step down to theirs, they will respect you more and appreciate the respect your showing them.

Anyway.

As a martial arts instructor you are easy pickings just be very, very ,very careful. Shit sticks.

beyond that make sure your insurance is in good order and both parent and child have signed their consent forms

have as much fun as possible (your state transmits, communicate your passion for the subject) and make sure they are above all else enjoying themselves, because with teens these days if its not fun and stimulating you won't keep their attention and they won't get the benefit

please dont mention my name or my website at any point Very Happy

This is after two and a half years of working in the blessed british education system, Ive been offered these types of contracts and they are pretty lucrative ...and Ive always knocked them back.

Why?

See advice above

For me its a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Word.

That's pretty much made my mind up. I'm not so worried about how to deal with piss-takers and flirty little girls (7 years in retail management taught me how to deal with that) but the legal stuff is a bit tricky. The truth is one of the main reasons I was hesitant is that when they do a CRB check (which I'm sure they will), I maaaayyy have some explaining to do Embarassed (wrong place, wrong time, should have known better and a nervous system that's hardwired not to let people get in my face Embarassed)

And I definitely would have kept it kick-boxing style. I wouldn't have even taught them pre-empting off the fence.

Yep... not worth the potential risk. Like you said, all it takes is to be left alone with a young girl at the end of class and next thing you know i could be accused of doing a Micheal Jackson

Shocked
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:54 pm

Quote :
Yep... not worth the potential risk. Like you said, all it takes is to be left alone with a young girl at the end of class and next thing you know i could be accused of doing a Micheal Jackson

Shocked

That moonwalking segment of your promo is gas on the fire in that event. Laughing

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D.M.B.

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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:48 pm

Richard Grannon wrote:
More focus on fitness, verbals, mindset and kickboxing.

Dont call it "Street" anything.

Think of the worst case scenario and imagine the newspaper report ahead of time. Give them no ammo.

"Child smashes head on concrete after being knocked out using headbutting technique from irresponsible thug instructor giving children street fighting thug classes"

No

no headbutts, no chokes, no gouging, no biting, no small joint attacks... no nothing that they can show their mates at break time that will get you in trouble

CYA (cover your arse)- at all times insist on a representative from the school being present and HAMMER legal restraint loudly and clearly over and over and over.

Hammer the fact that they are all responsible for their own and each others safety, over and over and over again, loud and clear: safety , safety , safety, LOOK AFTER each other.

NEVER take a class on your own always have another adult present, NEVER let yourself get left behind with just one student at the end of the class chatting, talk as you pack up and get outside the classroom and back into a public setting with the child as quickly as you can or just tell them to shut up and go wait outside for you.

If your taking a class with 15 to 17 year old girls, I would give it no more than 2 sessions before one of them tries to push boundaries with you. Be strict as fook with that, preempt it before it starts without breaking rapport. If they want to say flirty stuff let it roll, thats not a problem, but use your head and dont say anything back.
(sounds obvious right? oh Ive got some horror stories from running security in schools and form doing the motivational talks in schools, you wouldnt believe the shit people say to children trying to be funny and be cool with da "kidz").
If you want to build rapport, do not make the mistake of trying to do it by acting like a teenager, act like an adult, treat them like adults they will respond like adults (mostly).

Make them come up to your level, you dont step down to theirs, they will respect you more and appreciate the respect your showing them.

Anyway.

As a martial arts instructor you are easy pickings just be very, very ,very careful. Shit sticks.

beyond that make sure your insurance is in good order and both parent and child have signed their consent forms

have as much fun as possible (your state transmits, communicate your passion for the subject) and make sure they are above all else enjoying themselves, because with teens these days if its not fun and stimulating you won't keep their attention and they won't get the benefit

please dont mention my name or my website at any point Very Happy

This is after two and a half years of working in the blessed british education system, Ive been offered these types of contracts and they are pretty lucrative ...and Ive always knocked them back.

Why?

See advice above

For me its a lawsuit waiting to happen.

ouch, didn't even conider the legal side of things in that manner.

Where the heck would we end up without Richie lol!

Bloody solid advice.

cheers
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nironi7



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PostSubject: Re: Teaching Teenagers?   Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:22 am

Hi sharif
In my "day job", I am a principle of a special education school to children with adha ( 180 kids with an energy of a 1000 ). In the last 2 years I give privet lessons to kids in martial arts, so my answer relate on my years in education and relatively short experience in teaching martial arts. I think that first and foremost you have to set your goals with them with kids you have time to work on attributes, you have time to "go deep" because when working with kids you must see yourself first as an educator that have a huge influence on their minds and souls. They will adore you because you'll reflect power and strength that kids as kids adore. That admiration can be toxic. Working with kids is one of the best decisions I made they make you look inside yourself all the time, confront your ego etc.
The attributes I'm working on with kids are :
Physical attributes
1-Knowing how your body work, the concept of balance, center (kids tend to work in big movements outside their centerline).
2- Coordination and dexterity by doing combination of movements from simple to more complex.
3-strenghthing one's body and stamina.
Mental attributes
1- Focus and concentration
2- Seeking out to do the best you can (when doing a technique- do it correctly for example) .
3- Confronting fear and anger
4- Working with a partner : the ego issue, using the appropriate force , helping your partner not hurting unless it's for his benefit
5- Going to practice even when I don’t feel like it.

There are more but first let me know if this was what you meant when you asked the question. Again I'm sorry for my somewhat lame writing … guesses I shouldn't have cut my English lessons going to the beach…. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

If you would like I'll write the specific drills I do with my kids and how they relate to specific attributes I mentioned
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