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 The TIGHT ROPE WALK

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thugsage
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PostSubject: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:05 am

My students seem to be doing okay, they come from bad areas, are sort of mentally tough
and honest to a fault. the types who would tell you they couldn't get it up with their last
'almost-conquest the night before. can't say i need all the honesty they give--to be honest.
but i had to analyse why they were doing well in some of their pressure tests, that seem to
happen at a greater frequency then the rest of us.

trying to be objective i thought some of their successes might be due to:

-being able to fight already
-lying
-leaving out the 7 times they were thrashed on other occasions
-they were fighting children and the elderly
-they had some strategies that protected their egos
-they had good training
-they weren't going for the sports win--where all is black and white and weren't playing by sports rules
-etc. etc. etc.

after seeing some of the shite they've gotten up to in school, hearing some corroborated laughter and
accounting for from their friends--who seem to be around alot after school hours, knowing some of their
troubles through the co-working of the legal system [head cases, some of them]...i feel i can seperate
fact from fiction to enough of a degree where it's more or less an accurate assessment.

most of them weren't bad at fighting to begin with--and therefore weren't hard to reach for fight psychology.
what was missing was their success rates, not their willingness to engage. their egos were on the fence, in that
last fork in the roads between possibly being able to build up, or break down, from their mixed successes and
failures. they had rough families in the legal systems--most, and have been naturalized [largely] to regular
showings of violence if not from their own family, then from some of the characters in their collective neighborhoods.
one is bipolar and ready to go off in spite of his middle class background. another is the son of a politician, and
doesn't fit any of criteria most everyone else fits--upper class, that one.

having said all that--as a way of keeping it honest and not too self congratulatory, what i've done right [largely
with the help of some personal failures of my own and with some sound advice from Richie's many threads,
either directly or by inference] is:


-not overly stressing a win psychology, but rather a commitment to injure [the 'strong-showing']
-starting their game plan where the sports world would have them banned [joints; targets that shut down the fighter]
-emphasizing pre'emptive strategies, forward drive, and sticking [no room for counters]
-training the shite out of them, burning away their bad habits and dreadful pacing habits
-keeping the training almost a chimera of a real fight--short and exhausting, and angrily intense




what was made easy for me was their gullible and trusting nature--they didn't doubt what i fed them [lucky for me
it was the truth, and i didn't have to pay in their broken down bodies].

one even had their brother who got out of prison approve of the strategies he was bringing home. the brother demonstrated
as such in an intense pressure test that came out of his return [i just couldn't make this stuff up...i've got all the head cases].

i feel as though i started this fun assignment thinking i was training novices, only to find that i was really tweeking the future
tough nuts and rough necks in their early stages. what i try and continually contribute, now that i'm not so in the dark to their backgrounds and realities, is the ability to discriminate who's entitled to the [with more on the horizon to be sure] beatings that have taken place since they started training with me. several have taken some time to reach--one of the best students is in constant danger of becoming a part of the judicial system, being kicked out of school, and possibly being a statistic at some point if he isn't careful, another really is a diamond in the rough, who seems to want it and want more for himself. he's the personality i think about when i imagine keeping that balance between giving all my energies to these young guys, and investing in them to some degree.


the winning psychology that one should take into a fight, and the winning big picture psychology that inclines one to leave said fight after--emotionally as well as physically.

i'm growing as a result of seeing some of these perfect tabula rasas. their collective advancements and problems are so much on their metaphorical sleeves that the lessons to myself and them are almost daily. it's a very literal and real world they live in. one of them was telling me of multiples that invariably mean powerlessness and being robbed. he laughed about outrunning a group--that he was aware of, following his movements...ending up on a bus and cheekily smiling out of the back
window as the bus moved away from the group that was about to rob&roll him. he readily tells me of times his property was stolen, without much ego. and of times he's been nailed and not felt he could effectively do anything about it. he's been growing in maturity and fighting ability since i've met him.

never thought teaching would be like this. i think i like it more than i imagined i would. occasionally things get out of control and light lessons come out of it, that would not be a part of a softer group.

okay, finished rambling. but this was the place for the subject matter. i'm actually quite quiet about it elsewhere, hard to believe i bet lol!

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:38 am

Nice post Russ Cool

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:29 pm

Cheers Russ... Keep on kick'n
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:29 pm

Cool mate. Wish I could train with you , maybe someday Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:37 am

thanks cheers
we should all figure out how to travel more and train together scratch

i think about that alot actually Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:13 pm

That's why I think we should all meet at your house Russ! cheers

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:36 pm

Russ the Muss wrote:
thanks cheers
we should all figure out how to travel more and train together scratch

i think about that alot actually Very Happy

That would be very cool... You never know we might be able to meet one day...
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:26 am

roadkill wrote:
Russ the Muss wrote:
thanks cheers
we should all figure out how to travel more and train together scratch

i think about that alot actually Very Happy

That would be very cool... You never know we might be able to meet one day...

agreed...tbe possibilities are endless scratch

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:01 pm

Russ the Muss wrote:

i think about that alot actually Very Happy

Yeah, me too.

I'll be in Upstate NY for all of 10 days around New Years. But even if any of you were around there, I doubt that I'd find time withing those 10 days to train Crying or Very sad

Hopefully when Richie comes back from his South East Asian Sex Tour we could arrange something in the UK? A weekend training camp including accommodation. Something like the BCA residential courses.

OH, and nice post BTW Russ
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:16 pm

Sharif H wrote:

Hopefully when Richie comes back from his South East Asian Sex Tour we could arrange something in the UK?

lol! lol! lol! lol! lol!

lets give him some time for the genital warts to disappear and the burning to stop
affraid affraid affraid

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:50 pm

Sharif H wrote:
Hopefully when Richie comes back from his South East Asian Sex Tour ..

I was only checking this post because it had new replies..

Hahahahahahaahahahahhahahaha, don't think he's gonna hear the end of this for a while..!
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:58 pm

Russ the Muss wrote:

lets give him some time for the genital warts to disappear and the burning to stop

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:48 am

bastards, im here to further my understanding of martial arts and of buddhism, gutter minds Razz

will definitely be looking to do america in 2010, hopefully we can make something happen


nice post Russ
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:29 am

Hey Russ, you are on the right track, maybe throw in some scenario training, very effective tool and they would like it.Best of all they would know exactly how to replicate real life situations. Regards
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:30 am

I would love to train and meet up with you richie if you came to the states, I look foward to that BIG TIME! Hopefully you will be on the east coast!!
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:58 am

Danite wrote:
Hey Russ, you are on the right track, maybe throw in some scenario training, very effective tool and they would like it.Best of all they would know exactly how to replicate real life situations. Regards

cheers mate,
we used to do one drill they all liked, based on nailing one and then being pounced and needing to get to an exit.
it's a good point, and it really keeps all honest. i did it more last year. maybe it's a sign, coming from you scratch

i used to love it too, i even issued a few light bites when the inevitable pile up happened--some light head butts. i think
the catalyst that unofficially made me do these classes less often is that i had some complaints--not over the rough housing, but over the lost property that got torn off, etc... [ear ring--one that became a famous and never ending gripe session...all
these guys and their bloody 'bling-bling']. now i have all these 'mr.T' wannabees take off all their layers of gold and silver.
bloody primadonnas, the lot of them.

Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:50 pm

Safety first Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:04 pm

Hey Russ, the way our culture is these days its a wonder why anybody would want to bother teaching anybody anything.I hear you about the bling bling, not so popular in canada, but I always have students take off all jewelry and watches before we do anything.There are a whole bunch of good scenarios, amybe try one where the defender is in a fence postion dealing with someone either being aggressive or deceptively peaceful and they suddenly reach for a knife.Or multiple attackers etc, I find not only are they good tools but it gets the students more involved and really shows them that the material "really does work in real life" Regards
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:36 am

Danite wrote:
Hey Russ, the way our culture is these days its a wonder why anybody would want to bother teaching anybody anything.I hear you about the bling bling, not so popular in canada, but I always have students take off all jewelry and watches before we do anything.There are a whole bunch of good scenarios, amybe try one where the defender is in a fence postion dealing with someone either being aggressive or deceptively peaceful and they suddenly reach for a knife.Or multiple attackers etc, I find not only are they good tools but it gets the students more involved and really shows them that the material "really does work in real life" Regards

GOOD ADVICE, CHEERS cheers

just had a really heated and involved knife training today that was great!!! speaking of reaching for a knife. we wore
only goggles--regarding protective gear, and used fake knives...other than that, alot of pressure in a closed invironment.

really amps one up.

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:40 pm

Rus, I'm intrigued. When you run the knife drills, whats the aim? Control? Threat removal? Is it just you, empty handed? Can you use anything in the room to help? Do you put obstacles in the room? Do you shout & draw attention?

Always interested in how people do this. I will be doing the same style drill this evening. Not having seen Ritchies knife defence stuff (I think) wondered whether the aim is attack him or control the weapon? Think its attack him is'nt it? I've tried the control stuff that DBMA teach, could never get it to work successfully for me same with red zone knife defence, Attack the CNS is what I rely on now in drilling. Helps that I have a long reach.

Wish me luck. Got a bash night/grading tonight. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:59 pm

Blakops wrote:
Rus, I'm intrigued. When you run the knife drills, whats the aim? Control? Threat removal? Is it just you, empty handed? Can you use anything in the room to help? Do you put obstacles in the room? Do you shout & draw attention?

Always interested in how people do this. I will be doing the same style drill this evening. Not having seen Ritchies knife defence stuff (I think) wondered whether the aim is attack him or control the weapon? Think its attack him is'nt it? I've tried the control stuff that DBMA teach, could never get it to work successfully for me same with red zone knife defence, Attack the CNS is what I rely on now in drilling. Helps that I have a long reach.

Wish me luck. Got a bash night/grading tonight. Very Happy

and now i'm intrigued--and wish to know what/how you do.
we have two drills--one we haven't really explored yet because we're too busy with the first

1. [the one we do] closed space. he has a weapon and i don't. use anything in the room--especially walls and desks.
fukking try and send him to the next world. the reason: whilst playing the weapon game, it's too indirect. what makes
his focus fuzz over is forward motion on the extreme, and attacks...to include using that knife on him only IF it presents
itself. it's a frenzy, and we TRY and not hurt each other and we never focus on anything but shutting the other person
down--with about one deflection to run in with. it's the best we've experienced when doing it this way. goggles help to
allow face slashes, and eye gauges.

2. outdoors, or with more room...more like what Richie teaches from the tape...trying to use that first slam to create your
exit to run, more or less.

we do the first to create a worst case scenario

it's really fun, and really AMPS one up

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:21 pm

Hey Russ here is one you might like, have the class stand in a crowd in front of the designated defender snd at some point have someone come out of the crowd with a knife and attack.A variation is to allow them to pass the knife around between them and defender must identify who has the knife.You can alos add the crowd getting involved, that will really motivate them to blast the fuck out of there.I find its really good to give them the terrible experiance of being swarmed, even when its in training, with people slapping and shouting and swearing and restraining the person, it is so unpleasant that it installs a deep aversion to even letting that happen.Another good drill is to have two people ina clinch situation and the goal is to use tacticle sensitivity to detect an attempt to acces a knife(or gun) in the course of a fight and to try and suffocate it by controlling or manipulating thr weapon arm with the defenders free arm as he maintains a trap on the attacker.You could also try practicing for a live drill ie assuming the knife is already out trying to parry and strike at the same time, sometimes a good parry and an eye shot done to gether will shut down the attacker long enough to get away.Just some ideas, based on the many great drills I have done.They are effective and keep things interesting for the students, they lean so much when it is live drills, they see the chaos for themselves, they realise the dangers of trying to go force to force, they realsie how exhausting this is,richies material on the knife and mauling are really great to integrate as attacking the soft spots on an attacker is the best and fastes way to bypass the whole "who is tronger and in better shape" issue.Believe me Russ, I started doing this stuff at the age of 45 after being the King of Coach Potatoes for years and smoking too ( I quit that) training against young fit guys in theri twenties really made me realise the benefit if richies type of mauling material, the system in which I am an instructor is senshido, and works on similar principles, getting those hands and fingers into someones face while trapping him, adding knees , head butts , bitting spitting the wholel nine yards, is a great way to overpass those biger and stronger.Anyway I blab! enjoy.I can give you aa million drills of all kinds.Regards
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:52 pm

Hey Danite.

I have a few of the Senshido vids, really like them the ethic they evince is well sound. Would like to attend a seminar when money & health & time allow. How are you dealing with the new holistic, vaguely spiritual approach the Rich Dimitri seems to be adopting. Whats your view on the new de-escalation direction you guys are taking? I use a shred-maul-bert poe style grab & rip a lot in training & it seems very effective.

Rus, knife drills for us are most of the time very similar to what Sharif was showing on his vid a little while ago. Personally, I dont do that grapple thing. I just try to smack the guy in the head as hard as i can, If i cant run or transistion to use a weapon & I favour the run!!! In fact last grading, I forgot to hit the attacker & just legged it out the door. (well it was a crowd drill & you dont usually know who has the knife but i saw him access it when he was a good 5 metres away so i just left whilst shouting lookout out!!! He's got a knife!) & then I ran back in & hit him whilst he was looking bemused. That got a laugh.

I think there is too much macho shit around knife defence to be honest, I always tell my son Nike defence first & foremost, that blade arm is too fucking hard to catch & the risk is so very great.

The drills we do are usually with crowds or drawing the weapon after the fight has started, or dealing with 1 guy & 2nd party enters with a weapon. Because I have to train with out glasses a lot of the time, I have to rely on the opponents posture & demeanour to tell me whether he is armed rather than seeing him cleanly access or carry the weapon.

In other words, pretty standard drills you would hope to see anywhere that the people who follow the ethos on this site would train.

Matt
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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:55 pm

Matt--Blakops
sounds good.
i case mine wasn't clear [often too cryptic--me], we never grapple per say. or grab
a knife arm as such. mostly hitting over and over and attempting to ram the person
against the nearest hard surface. this is the close quarters [in a room, etc...anywhere
that an exit isn't just ahead with the door wide open].

the rest is the same as you train, and Richie. when some escape is in view. to include
non knife stuff. alot of the multiples end in someone simply outrunning--and weaving,
their way out the marked exit.

just adding in case the entry wasn't clear. i still admit to liking this training more than
running. can't say why...okay, yes i can, because it develops the agro...or allows it
release [can't say which].

have a good training tonight--you'll probably be done when you read this...about 8pm
your time as i type.


...

Danite,
thanks for the drill tips. i don't get the opportunity to do knife drills with my 18 yr olds,
the school is not that open minded Shocked

all my knife drills at the moment, are one on one--with my mate that i've been doing
MA with for over 20 years. there's alot of trust as we push the envelop and beat the
shite out of each other.

i can't wait to get more of my after hours folks on board to knife drills and multiples.
still awaiting my big school drop out nephews to join--supposedly after the new year.
i'll try ALL the drills you have for me mate. i'm saving the one you posted.
tah

Cool

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PostSubject: Re: The TIGHT ROPE WALK   Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:37 pm

Hey Black Ops, just one word on knife defence.I agree fully that the focus should be on escape, but some attention must be paid to having no choice but to deal with the attack by coming to grips with the attacker in some form and trying to control ( via manipulation even , ie getting your hand into the web of his arm) the knife arm.I am glad you like the senshido material.Rich will be shooting new dvds at an upcoming seminar in sheffiled ( I can get the dates for you if you wish).De -escalation has always been a major part of senshido training.Getting really conmfortable with working from the fence and working the fence for all its worth is really worthwhile.Being adept at it alows for both the option of getting out of the situation without violence, or dealing explosively with the need for violence.As well doing alot of realistic scenario training with the fence and attempting to de -escalate( which should include real and loud levels of extreme verbal abuse and button pushing) makes on much less sensitive to the whole thing.After a while you ignore the shouting and the insults and concentrate on the important stuff, like where his hands are, what his friends are doing and what your plan is.I think working from the fence with de -escalation techiniques is a very important element of street survival skills.I have seen a thousand times.The big new guy in the class, the real "tough MMA guy" who gets to play the heavy in his first scenario session, he comes on real strong as he should supper secure in himself and his stuff, and then he freezes when a hand is simply put in his face from the fence position( and so delivered non telegraphically, thus he can stop it).It is them pointed up with the ways that freeze even for a seconf can be followed up.They are much more careful after that.The average thug in the srteet is not expecting these kinds of responses and techinques, it puts suprise on our side,which is what he figured he had on his.Regards
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