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 Why do other people want to get involved?

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Blakops

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PostSubject: Why do other people want to get involved?   Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:06 pm

I expect those of you who have had to work in security have had this situation. Why do think that other people have to try and get involved?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3551154485113114701&ei=ekjXSqLfEJverQL8qZzJCg&q=beat+downs&hl=en#docid=-3334312495886382647

I watched a shoplifter who was very aggressive & really throwing punches get dropped & held in armlocks by 2 security guards outside tesco metro a little while ago. He was struggling like fuck & it was raining. He wouldnt calm down, screaming shouting & swearing & they were really having difficulty restraining this guy. (should have knelt on his neck or held his head against the pavement) Anyway, crowd gathers & a collection of young women, students I would guess, were really screaming in fury at the guards. Thats brutality, I'm calling the police, You cant do that to him; the floor is wet!!! Why their sudden desire to get involved. It seems to be men & women. Why are they affected by the situation to that extent? Realisticly there seems to be no gain, unless it is demonstrating status, Is it a harddwire response to violence...of a certain kind? It is because the violence is softer? People dont seem to get involved when some guy is beating the shit out of someone, really damaging, then people just watch initially. Does the level of violence override their desire for status display?

There a large number of security vids online showing the same response over & over.
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:06 pm

really good question. one you may have answered:

-it's not as scary--the pace and slow grappling'ish feel

-security aren't seen as real authority, and expected to not represent a threat to them [the hecklers]

-they don't understand that the situation is more dangerous if not overwhelming the
attacker. i've had a fight take ages trying to make onlookers feel warm inside...then
suddenly i thought, "oh fuk, the fighter isn't taking me seriously enough, i've had enough"
then applied jerky and hard real pressure and in seconds it was over.

-then there's the 'arm-chair' macho themes--and you bet they don't want a part of
yelling at the bad guy unless the bad guy is 50 pounds soaking wet, toothless, and
retirement age.

my dad's airedale terrior never attacked a single dog but one--a lame and wimpy beta
wuss of a golden retriever that was old and fell over during times of excitement...suddenly
this cowardly pudding became 'CUJO'.

probably more to add form all the crew, but these came to mind. nice question.

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roadkill

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:20 pm

It would seem to me that it has more to do with authority more than anything else and as Russ mentioned. Security guards are not often looked at as much of an authority figure.

Also I think it depends on where this is taking place. For instance, if itís here in the states the bystander knows they can say shit like ďwhy are you kneeling on him or you canít hit him like thatĒ and there would be little retribution for their verbiage. Now go to Russia and say that to a cop and what happens, time for a smack down. So Iím just guessing here, but I would think that bystanders in Russia say much less in those situations than other parts.
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Mike2010

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:38 pm

I think because we live in a society where we have the right to judge, and the right to get involved (at our discretion), it leads to people who think that they can just give their input about any situation (with no consequences). I think that violence is viewed as optional (and undesirable/inhuman) and therefore if somebody is overwhelmed even by the 'goodies' a feeling of abuse takes root.

How many times on British TV do you see a drunk resisting arrest and the PC's have to subdue him with a mob in the background all trying to walk into the middle of the fray? It's interesting what you say about different cultures Roadkill. I don't think people treat the Police the same in the US as in the UK. The Police in the US appear to have status and discretion. Ours appear (unfortunately) to be slaves to the beaurocrats, with few powers (even of self-defense).

There's nothing more annoying than a self-righteous stranger giving his two cents is there?

Once a 'good samaritan' type wondered in to a heated debate I was having with somebody I knew, trying to calm it down. It was him that I grabbed (we were a bit tanked up), and you shouldve seen the look of terror on his face when he realised what he'd got himself into.
Usually I think you see it outside pubs/clubs too when women wade into standoffs and do something provocative and disproportionate like slapping the aggressor. My gf almost got me battered once by aggressively pushing someone i'd managed to calm down (again, she was drunk).
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Mike2010

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:48 pm

PS it's very interesting what you said about status Blackops. I suppose heckling security staff or policemen is a good way to assert yourself as superior and righteous (because you know you're untouchable/not a priority).

I think in our society in the UK there is a knowledge amongst the petty criminals that nobody has the right to hurt them ('or I'll sue'). In my opinion this leads to people resisting like in the video - they have NOTHING to lose (I doubt their self-esteem is high enough to relate to dignity or make them want to conserve their 'good looks').

If you had three big nasty looking fuckers stop you after you shoplifted in Russia you probably wouldn't struggle like a toddler and have a tantrum until the Police arrived would you?
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Official Hypocrite



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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:04 am

Oh, this is interesting.

Yes, why do people complain and interfere so much when they see "authorised" legit security or even citizen joe just trying to restrain some violent shithead, but not when obviously nasty types are kicking the shit out of an obviously weaker nice guy? Why o why? It's so unfair and stupid! Indeed, yet there's a logic:

Most people dislike real violence. They may vicariously get a fix from xbox or TV or myths in the old days but they really don't fancy it when they aren't angry about something. When they are it can lead to the absurd insanity of "antiviolence" bystanders attacking the "good guy". Happens in this crazy world.
The cognitive dissonance is reinforced by cultural programming. Being violent in self-defence or to restrain the evildoers of this world is something left to the Police and TV characters. "Good" people are not supposed to ever be violent. So "think" the sheep should the Elite ever get their full sway.

Critical thinking skills have been forced out of the masses... so few can consider an emotional situation with clarity that comes from calm. Kneejerk reactions are ever the norm.

They also like freedom, not enough to really fight for it as it slips away and the dope kicks in, as they shop, eat and drone at work, but enough to struggle if an non-Govt man restricted their liberties. Govt. has em programmed to obey but security are not yet accorded that blind obedience. So when they see a guy being overwhelmingly restricted and "suffering violence", even when actually he is the one causing the more violence and is just being pinned, they root for him and hate the dominator. They want it to go back being "free and happy" even if they have to attack the good guys and let an obvious crim thug get away!
Aaaah, the madness of crowds. As if they were free and happy to start with, the pathetic plebs...
Grrr! Is it only the few who have balls. heart and brains?

So essentially it is a natural reaction against the violence of repression that society forces on the individual.
They are just too dumb to not confuse the shit they see in their face with the mountains of shit heaped on them before they were even born by an utterly corrupt Shitstem (to use a Toshism).

So why don't they usually protest so much when it is a gang stomping?
Obvious, that. They are scared. Security guards don't turn on interferers with prejudice, sociopaths do.

End of sermon. Smile
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:18 am

Official Hypocrite wrote:
So why don't they usually protest so much when it is a gang stomping?
Obvious, that. They are scared. Security guards don't turn on interferers with prejudice, sociopaths do.
End of sermon. Smile

ha ha ha. nice. cheers
okay vicar, we'll be back next sunday for another sermon--cheers for the insights.

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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:33 am

good thread good points


Quote :
Critical thinking skills have been forced out of the masses... so few can consider an emotional situation with clarity that comes from calm. Kneejerk reactions are ever the norm.

word


and a nod to you saying "people dont like violence"

well they like certain kinds: they like it chewed up for them, flavoured, and spat peicemeal into their blindly guzzling beaks WHEN WHERE and HOW it suits them, fucking drones

last few fights Ive been in Ive walked away furious and depressed with the attitude of my mates (zero emotional attachment post fight to the people who started it) who are happy enough to use Richie when it suits to prop up a weak sense of self and even to call on him to sort things out when it gets rough, but when Richie switches state and does his thing he notices a look in their eyes afterward that wasnt there before: something between hatred and fear

even to the point of turning on me: "Richie went too far, that was out of order"

when they are shitting themselves they want you, but they want you to deal with it nicely, maybe with an armlock?

you know like in that bar fight in that Steven Seagal film?


I fight the worldview that People are essentially fucking weak, needy, selfish cunts who as much as they may admire you will ultimately hate you for being able to do what they cant and god help you if you frighten them or make them feel "less than" in anyway because as soon as the opportunity arises those blades are out and in your back before you can say "infamy, infamy, they've all got it infamy!"- hahaha!

I fight that view but sometimes its hard.

People talk shit in safe environments like the fight shown because they are weak needy cunts whose lives lack meaning and they are conidtioned to think that "drama" equals significance and gobbing off is a good, safe way of being involved but not too involved

vicarious thrill seaking soulless lifeless dead behind the eyes cattle

I hope the illuminati win and that every cunt gets chipped

cattle, brand them, chip them, harvest their organs, like I give a shit


you know Im going to delete this later right?

lol!
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 11:37 am

Back in my professional mode:

to be fair the security guards arent in uniform (I had this problem in tenerife, perception is reality, working without uniform makes trouble) and are acting like a pair of panicking buffooons

if two of you get rolled around by one little drunk smack rat you need to stand in the corner with your pants around your ankles

more than military or police, doormen and security guards MUST train, its just irresponsible not to
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thugsage
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:36 pm

Really nice responses Richie--both of them. i took the liberty of not quoting the first
in case you really did want to delete lol! lol! lol!

in spite of my agreeing with all of it. ALL OF IT!!! Shocked lol!

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Mike2010

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:22 pm

You both hit the nail bang on the head there.
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Danite



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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:21 pm

Richie, why fight the "view" its the truth.In particular in the west, in other countries where people are raised differently your actions on behalf of your friends would be viewed differently, but in the west your observationsa re right on.It has happened to me, I once got verbally and body language heavy on behalf of some firends I was with in a pool bar, (at there request to deal with a tough guy), they were glad I put the jerk in his place, but then after words I was "dangerous" Fuck that. I never ever did that again.People in the west are not raised to be fighters, thats why they cant understand other parts of the world where people are raised to fight for their honour, and their famillies and for their community.People in the west often reviolt me with their cowardice.
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nix

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:23 pm

Reminded of snippet from LTC. Dave Grossman's paper; 'On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs'
"...the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land"

Click -> here <- for link fo full paper.
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roadkill

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:34 am

nix wrote:
Reminded of snippet from LTC. Dave Grossman's paper; 'On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs'
"...the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land"

Click -> here <- for link fo full paper.

Roger that man....

I really digg Grossman's stuff. Have you got the "Bullet proof sheild"? Highly recommended cheers
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maija
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:49 am

You beat me to it, nix! - Great quote Cool

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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:59 am

[quote="Richard Grannon"]


Quote :
I hope the illuminati win and that every cunt gets chipped

cattle, brand them, chip them, harvest their organs, like I give a shit

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:26 am

I think that explains it Nix

Ive heard it put another way, when I was going for officer training there was a group of us taken out by the other officers in the regiment, we were told "for fucks sake dont tell anyone your here visiting the **** barracks, nobody likes a soldier"


Technics, new dvd on verbal conflict is out mate
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technics1210

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:32 am

Richard Grannon wrote:
[/b]"


Technics, new dvd on verbal conflict is out mate

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Thank you!
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Benjamin

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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:22 am

Yes it fucking shits me when these people get involved..

Many times when me and other security have ejected or had to restrain somebody there is some idiot yelling shit.

They don't know whats going on, they just see enough to make the wrong impression and get on their high horse!

I can't really add much more. Just thanks for the "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs" article.. really good.. got me thinking about alot of things.

Its funny because these same people who get involved trying to tell you your doing the wrong thing and condemn you are the first people to wish you were there when some punk is attacking them..

Hmm interesting.. ties in with the sheepdog analogy!

-Ben
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jm93



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PostSubject: Re: Why do other people want to get involved?   Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:37 pm

I Hate it when people get involved when it isnít necessary they will try and split up arguments that where unlikely to end in a fight. However when genuine fights ochre people tend to ignore it and look away. Witch shows most people will fear real aggressive violence but can feel a sense of masculine superiority in situations when they intervene where there is no real threat.
By the way I know this is a very late reply but I found the subject interesting.
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