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 Question about modeling and Supra State

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John



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PostSubject: Question about modeling and Supra State   Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:23 am

I recently started using the NLP Supra state in my training and have several people I admire that I have been modeling.

My problem is tho, they each are missing key components which I want in my supra state. If I combine the two I have exactly what I want.

I tried putting them together into a fictional character but that didn't seem to work. I also have a hard time with tv/movie characters I consider badass.

Is there any tips for modeling several people for one supra state (one type of situation)?
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:10 pm

MMMmmmm... I dont struggle to mix attributes of different characters....

any help with this one guys?

One thing I would say is : dont take ANY of my instructions too literally, they are just a guidline, stay focussed on the goal which is remaining confident and skillful in the face of violence
so if you can find ANY solution or method that allows you to do that, whether it be a modification of the strategy prescribed in the supra states cd course or something totally original you came up with yourself JUST USE IT... and then please share it with the rest of us

these things are only ideas put together to set you in a direction, but ultimately your way of creating and accesing a supra state wil be as unique to you as your own thumbprint

ps. you arent alone. A guy from Texas who emails me fairly regularly yesterday asking how to visualise/conceptualise in the first person (associated) as he only ever runs his strategy for dealing with or dishing out violence in the second person (disassociated)... well the reason he is trying to do that is because I said in the Psychology of Violence course that

"it IS more effective to do it in the first person"

however what I should have said is: "I have found this to be more effective for myself and my students to visualise in the fist person"

the theory behind this being that when you are actually in a fight you will have to be doing it in the first person as it is your body being affected and as we all know: as ye traineth so shall ye reacteth (Gospel according to Richie)

BUT
everyones mind is different, everyones body is different and how the body mind interact is different and unique to each person- (even though we all run as operational systems by the same universal principles)

The psychology training: take it as a recomendation to be built on not gospel or a direct order

I cant know what will work best for you, noone can but you! Very Happy

pps
you could try the good old NLP "as if" reframe
you said
Quote :
If I combine the two I have exactly what I want.
so how does it feel when the two are combined and you have exactly what you want?
Can you imagine how it would feel right now if the two were combined to give you exactly what you want?
Start acting as if the two were combined right now and giving you exactly what you want...
how would that feel? how would breathe? how would you stand? what would you be thinking right now as you expereince of the two being combined perfectly to give you exactly what you want...?

hope this helps mate

anyone else chip in and make a suggestion?
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John



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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:54 am

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

Like you said in the CD, you need to practice it alot

So i'm just going to practice it more. I bet I'll figure what works best. Also I do feel a huge difference just from modeling this guy that has just some of the things I want.

Thanks again
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:57 am

While on the subject of the supra state. What kinds of people, characters, thoughts, attitudes and/or ways of looking at things do you find useful?

Personally I tend to get torn between different things as I'm constructing the supra state. I don't really know what I want in there. Mostly because I'm a perfectionistic nerd I guess. I suppose I'd be better off just creating any sort of results.

Dehumanization is one thing, it's pretty effective. On the other hand there's a sort of compassion and amazement with life I.e., the functioning of anatomy and physiology and the potential of a human being. This can be used to fuel a sort of fury over the idiocy of this moron who won't take the hints and outs that you're giving. At the same time as you've said you become a bit sorry you've got to do this to him. This might also be better on along term level when it comes to the conviction that you are in the right as far as law and ethics go. Come to think of it there might be a way to combine the two. You are compassionate and value life and all while holding the perspective that after a certain point they become irredeemable scum and deserve every bad thing they get. Dehumanizing them from that point on.



Something that I have experienced as very powerful is regarding myself as already dead. It's something I've read about many people having done in wars and disasters with good results. First some context. While I worked the nights at an inn/pile-of-cash-with-neon-lights a few years back this guy came knocking on the door at about 4 in the night. Nobody comes at that hour, and he was definitly from the local area. (The only people arriving or leaving at that time would be tourists from Hurtigruta, a sort of cruise boat). He must have lived within walking-distance from the inn. There's a lot of drugs in my town, and I could easily imagine that guy with a syringe up his arm.

And why did he come at such a god-awful hour? To get a price list! He was telling me that he had walked through a snowstorm in the middle of the night, for a freaking price list... And note that he had his right hand in his jacket pocket the whole time! It was an interview. This was just at the time when I had realized the true implications of mortality. My death was a fact the very moment I was concieved in my mother's womb and all that. I figured he had a knife and that only having a little bit training he'd almost certainly be able to kill me if he wanted to. So basically I'd just found out the time of my death.

At the same time I held a strong conviction that there was no safety in compliance. After giving up control that'd be a point of no return so giving in to threats was not an option. Of course at the same time there was a lot of warrior-memes circulating in my head such as "any man who is a man, may not with honor, submit to threats of violence." (Jeff Cooper) In the end I had accepted my death completely and calmly while deciding to take the motherfucker with me. Avenging my death or at the very least mauling him so badly he'd regret the encounter the rest of his miserable life. The soundtrack I associate with this is "the end" by the doors. (from the beginning of apocalypse now. The attitude from that movie was also a big part when I think of it)

I didn't even get an adrenaline dump or anything. Being already dead and all. Wink But I did become highly focused. Every move I made seemed to have some tactical function. It was pure determination to simply take him with me when the knife came out. Ripping open his throat and eyes with a pencil I had. Not hot anger, but cold hate and disgust. But in the end I failed that interview. He got his price list, made some lame excuse and left again.

For some additional context I may have been quite far into a depression at that time. I've always been quite unemotional, I seem to be about halfway into Aspberger's range. I felt normal, levelled and all but there was a certain bleak tone under everything. In fact make that a definite depression. At worst I'd sometimes go to sleep at 08:00 in the morning after work and sleep until 23:00 and go back to work again. Reading stuff like 1984 and everything. Not to mention that being northern Norway in the middle of the winter there was no daylight whatsoever (except for a few hours when I was sleeping of course). Well that should cover it. It was a real powerful state of mind. But better isolated to certain situations than as a worldview I suppose.
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Loki
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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:54 pm

Hey John,

What problems do you find when modeling movie characters and fictional characters?
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Sergei

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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:06 pm

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Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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RichardB



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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:09 pm

Sergei wrote:
Quote :
Dehumanization is one thing, it's pretty effective.
Dehumanize them...they are just animals, no different than any other pack animals. I see no difference between an ant or a human. I always expect it to become violent because in my experiences it usually always did get physical. It's a pack animal in front of you, out to destroy you like a tiger would. Dominate it, overwhelm it, and destroy it. My advice is to keep dehumanizing them mentally until it becomes natural. Finish him off like you would a mosquito sucking your blood. Remember that survival is the 1st law of nature.

You are very right. BTW I remember having recently seen alien Vs. Predator 2, and was pleasantly surprised by the callousness of the killing. People got killed with the same feeling that swatting a fly creates. Lots of strong roles who would normally survive the movie got splattered like it was nothing, with none of that dumb emotional buildup and all that. Something along these lines that migth be useful is to ignore all that subjective stuff (in regards to communication with them) and simply take control physically without acknowledging them in the least.

When it comes to violence I think it is crucial to have an attitude of violation, so to speak. Violating their entire being, body and psyche. Where you simply treat people as things the way you want. Some people are way too civillized about violence and can't get out of that communication-dynamic which is appropriate for normal interaction, but will get them stomped in violent application. I.e., for applying a rear naked choke, I've seen people be polite enough to climb the guy to apply the choke rather than just whack a leg out of the way first. Just a thought while on the subject...
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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:00 pm

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Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Wed Mar 05, 2008 1:26 am

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Last edited by Sergei on Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John



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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:15 am

thanks for all the great replies.

Quote :
What problems do you find when modeling movie characters and fictional characters?

I was having the problem of imagining what they were thinking or feeling, I could mimic what they were doing on the outside but it couldnt get my head around how they thought or would feel.


Quote :
Have you spent any significant time around people that have what you want?

I haven't had a chance to spend alot of time around people who have what I want. But the ones that do only switch it on when they have to, I've only seen it once or twice.

Sergei, you said you were being very anti social. Its funny you mentioned that. Just today I caught myself frowning at friendly people trying to talk to me because I was thinking of violent thoughts.

Soo I feel like I am feeling the supra state I wanted but it is not being triggered properly and is becoming normal.

Does this mean I haven't been focusing on using a trigger effectively? is it just turning into my everyday state?

I love how it feels during training but I train alot at least 5 days a week.

Dunno if I should cut back on using it during training, but If I don't train the way I fight what will I do during a fight
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Richard Grannon
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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:42 pm

Quote :
Sergei, you said you were being very anti social. Its funny you mentioned that. Just today I caught myself frowning at friendly people trying to talk to me because I was thinking of violent thoughts

Ok you just scared me pale

Guys Ive been watching this thread and saying nothing because I want you to find your own solutions between yourselves and your doing well- but I have to interject here on behalf of people new to the forum and new to some of the SFS products and on behalf of YOUR mental health clown

its time to stop- the techniques in the NLP series will make you moody and confrontational as Ive repeatedly warned: YOU MUST NOW BALANCE THESE WITH THE OTHER MORE POSITIVE TECHNIQUES DISCUSSED ON THE CD

the last thing I want is people scowling and trying to create violent thoughts when interacting with people being friendly

John, in no sense am I trying to make you wrong- EVERYONE DOES THIS... but now Im suggesting to you that you need to make a commitment to doing some new techniques as well

Much of the need to "learn to fight" and study "sef protection" comes at root from feeling threatened and insecure... if we didnt feel threatened at some point why would we be spending hours and hours of our lives banging the crap out of human shaped pads???

We need to be honest with ourselves...

Now in order not to descend into some kind of sociopathic Travis Bickle revenge fantasy nightmare lifestyle (see Scorceses Taxi Driver- you know: RObert de Niro practising kicking off in the mirror) we need to get out of ourselves once in a while

You need to balance these violent murderous visualistations with something a bit happier, cheerier

at the risk of sounding like Dale Carnegie and ANthony Robbins inbred love child, here is your homework:

-smile at people you dont know when walking down the street- try saying "good morning" I know its old fashioned but its a fine British tradition and we should bring it back

-offer to help an oldie out- with shopping, crossing the road- whatever- just do it or I will hunt you down and beat you

-try making friends with someone- look, I know its very American/European to strike up conversations on public transport but we really need to get out of the darkness here- I am big and brave enough to be prepared to feel a bit daft, are you?

-pick out someone you think looks scary, or a gang of chavs, whatever... go into a good state... then go over and ask them something in a really friendly way, anything... the time, a cash machine a bus stop whatever- use your common sense of course- you may well be surprised to see that tattooed scarred face break into a smile as they are only too happy to help... or not... so what? move on



A big part of your self protection training is your capacity to build rapport with people quickly and easily- that has always been and will always be FAR FAR FAR more important than any "fighting" techniques

I believe in Karma, and I believe we get what we train for, what we practise, what we visualise... the point of the NLP cds is to make you more effective IF you get into a fight... NOT to get you into more fights

Walk around scowling and thinking violent thoughts around people and some desperate alpha male wannabe will smell it and you will be scrapping

Be "Professional"

its such a good word... you dont have to be "nice" you dont have to be a pushover... be in control of yourself and the uncoscious messages you are sending out

Think about the implications of that one little linguistic reframe- what does being a "Professional" imply?

So go out in the world with a clearer chosen definition of yourself:

do you want to be a "fighter"? a "martial artist"? an "SP practitioner"?
a "tactical urban ninja"? a "bouncer"? a "hardcase"?

-- how boring and limiting is that?

God, I wouldnt even want to hang around people who defined themselves like that let alone be one... would you?

Find a new self definition. Dont give in and buy into the "fear reality" myth that is being promulgated by modern media... the vast majority of people are essentially good and the world is a pretty place.

Put the "Psychology of Violence" cds to one side for a week and spend 7 days visualising positive things occuring- I know I told you to do that already, but have you?
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ron



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PostSubject: Re: Question about modeling and Supra State   Tue May 27, 2008 12:12 pm

i really agree with what you're saying there richie, especially in regards to labelling.

if somebody is just a 'martial artist'
and 'martial artists' just fight and train to fight
then somebody just fights and trains to fight

thats definately an oversimplification!! but what im trying to say is that if you set up some sort of constricting framework which supposedly binds you, you may miss the bigger picture. but that said keep training, just remember there is more out there~!

kudos

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