No time

Please post more 'O.H.'

I liked the door video, it makes a good point. It changes you.

Oh well everyone has different taste, I quite liked Clubbed.

I had to read those 2 streams of consciousness twice.

Yes, We dont like people who act irrationally do we.

Having a sibling going through some extreme mental health issues, I entirely understand why.

A good persona to adopt if circumstances, call for it.

Danite, I find cold steel eyed rationallity is nowhere near as unnerving though it does put me on guard.

Sorry cant think of any examples, re fictious supra-state creation.

Just different personal taste. Ben. Door was good.

.

okay, i'm sure i'm not sharing space with ANY comic book geeks...ahem...but i will say that my mate
who i train with and have known for over 20 years was always the world's biggest GEEK. sleeping on the
sidewalk before a new star-wars film debut, etc...going to star trek conventions. it was, to be blunt, time
for me to do other things when this happened. we fight, and train...then he'd smoke week and read
comic books and i'd hit the weight room, over eat, and get drunk. we were both, in a word, losers--in
one way or another.

but there was this one comic book he had me hooked on--the bastard. did i mention he was the manager
of a geeky comic book store in georgetown at the time, hmmm, i wonder why i didn't

it was called...

THE BADGER

the guy's name was norbert sykes. he was a disturbed vietnam vet. and the beginning of the series has him
in the nut ward for multiple personalities. one was the traumatized vet, another was an 11 year old girl who
was scared and cried over some trauma, another was a little boy, the nasty rich twat,and yes...there was
THE BADGER.

the beginnings were awkward. a costume...beating up jay-walkers, etc...he was a martial art/combatives type
to begin with before all the mental ward stuff BTW.

enter HAM, a 500 yr old DRUID wizard--in the same mental institution for claiming to be said wizard. slowly amassing
a fortune whilst stuck in his padded cell, making his incantations and telepathically healing and building norbert
sykes in the next room...to include communicating with him.

in the end, THE BADGER, fights real criminals--just with skills that are honed, and occasionally demons because
of HAM's world.

the best part was that unpredictably, norbert sykes would occasionally be stuck as one of his other less desirable characters,
sniveling in the fetal position in a corner, or whatever. the states on occasion claimed him.


NORBERT SYKES: THE BADGER...probably long out of circulation--a small unknown comic company, about about 3 dozen comics before being discontinued...brought back a wee bit later for it's small following, then presumably dropped again.

probably haven't remembered the facts right but i just saw these three links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badger_(comics)

http://www.bloodyredbaron.com/index_files/badgercharacters.htm

http://abouttocharge.wordpress.com/2008/01/03/quite-possibly-the-greatest-superhero-of-all-time/

Ooo Russ, that comic sounds wicked! I'll have to see if any of my comic book geek friends know anything about it ....

Mate, I will but not tonight... oh OK then
Anyway, Richie, as your Official Hypocrite, I order to you take a massive dose of Thai Magic Mushrooms. A superheroic dose.
Just don't smash anything physical or drink booze. Alright?

I just spent about 2 hours writing and rewriting a reply on the tinfoil hat thread only for it to be lost as I posted it. I hate that my tiny mind needs to remember to save messages as connections to forums when you don't change page for a while often fuck up like that. Anyway I sent a brief bigup to Richie B and a flame there, I don't recall whether I called Danite an idiot or not, no, but I might as well had, and now have an email to type and I must crash soon... both of which i do slowly.

In brief... you know NLP better than me (I had 2 of the duo's books ages ago) and must have quite a bity of familiarity with the various ways of suggestion so I am not sure what i can offer. The trauma based MK stuff is hardly useful to us as we don't want trauma.
The electromagnetic stuff is of interest but not what we are looking for as we we'd like an immediately useful mindset intrinsically effective in combat/sellf-protection.
The effective persona roles are varied, from crazy dangerous to catatonia. Thereby we have many options to slip into. Even catatonia has been successfully used to escape Soviet execution. Don't flinch when they pop the spinal tap in, OK?! That's the life or death test.

My concerns are twofold:

A = How we do we learn to easily access these effective states, what technologies do we need? How much would that cost? Which is most practical and so how must we prioritise resources?.Many questions...

B = The danger of the "evil" personas, at least both in terms of potentially increased immediate risk from 'attracting' trouble and aggravating situations AND the longterm psychological effects. The question of whether the indulgement of these evil characters is worth the boost when maybe there are better confrontation harmonisers than these hyperaggressive roles. It has been my experience that assuming angry roles is harmful to my health and adds to my burdens, however valuable as it surely was in developing me as a fighter. I'd rather be a nice kung fu boy who doesn't say boo unless justice must be fought for but sadly I am a bolshy miserable bastard with a cob on. I just hide it under a veneer of charm like any common psychopath Only joking. But then I would say that, wouldn't I?

I like the Animals to help in the fight. Tiger is my Totem so I have no trouble usually in responding well to a kickoff but that is to the degree, as with everyone, that I am not directed by fear.
Is there a better BodyMindSoul state to be in for repulsion of trouble?
Are there ways of being that don't require anger to intimidate an enemy?

As the kidney energy is lowered by alcohol and other toxins and overstressed adrenals quiver we all might feel weak at the knees when some huge thug threatens to knife us so how do we gets back to a more lively and more survival efficient dynamic of anger, an overheating liver? Spiritually and materially it may be too much of a burden or a risk of calamity to entertain anger yet if it is already sitting there, conscious or unconsciously, then there is no better place I guess than to fuel our SD training with it!

So if we have anger repressed in us and who does not? then we ought to channel it well and/or let it escape. By summoning that dark side one opens a can of worms but the sooner the boil is lanced the better for the Angry Impatient One. Thus instead of harmonising the energy by transduction into infinite frequency love spirit energy we squeeze it into the pressure cooker of our warfighting laboratory to forge our mind souls bodies into a bloody perfect surviving vessel for the Holy Spirit.
Or something like that. You get the idea.
Yet I suspect it would not heal the anger as it would not be released or changed much during training to fire it up and use it to fight fear and enemies. Indeed it may draw bad influences. It is a bit Shar Chi, bad karma. So I am most sceptical of the net worth of bad-assing it.

There is a Anger release Qi Gong that uses a horse stance and slow relaxed punches and an angry face. Hmmmm... not tried it much.

Well, so far lots of questions but few answers.

Damn Russ,

Now I've got to go into my storage and dig out my old issues of the Badger. Oh well who knows what other treasures I'll find.


Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

We had a conversation on here a while back about something related to this ... but lord knows if I can remember where it was.
I think I asked something about if one had to be 'hot' angry/crazy, or if 'cold focus' would be as effective. I remember I was thinking of predators hunting lunch, as per OH's Tiger totem. There is no anger, berzerker or malice in that case, but NO uncertainty about what the intent is either.
I know the tiger probably has no social taboos, so I'm sure there is no inner conflict about killing to eat, but if a supra state can be 'personalized', surely there is scope for imagination? ....Or are there only a few 'characters' that would work - i.e. that a potential attacker would shrink away from?

Another thought - Most of the fictional characters on this thread, not all, get their state 'given' to them by others, to the extent that in many cases their original selves disappear. This doesn't seem to be the model that I would be interested in pursuing. If getting one is psychologically damaging in the long run .... I'm not sure if I want one just for the slight possibility of having to pull it out if I am attacked (which I believe is not that likely). OTOH, I love the idea of tapping into an alternative character that is the one that might almost relish those moments of physical madness. Developing a positive reaction - perhaps righteous indignation and the joy of meting out some justice, might be healthier to the individual if anger does not work? ....Or maybe not ....?
Not really thought this through, but questions breed more questions I guess ....

As another thought, Grossman talks about the rituals traditional tribal cultures have before and after battle ... creating and dissolving the warrior as needed. He compares that with the lack thereof in modern day warfare and it;s connection to PTSD.
The Dog Brothers mimic these ideas to some extent by having the fighters fight at 'The Gathering' - A ritual space in a sense, but what I like about their approach is this idea that the aggression is a completely natural and healthy human state, but it's the context that has been lost. Their idea is to channel aggression into the protection instinct and away from the predatory (human not animal).

PS: OH - Ever practiced the 5 healing sounds? There is one associated with each element/organ/emotion. Interesting stuff.

Sorry to be off-topic but, O.H...

Quote:

A superheroic dose

Is that not a Terrence Mckenna quote?

Many law enforcement trainers use this idea of the ritual in their survival training. I have used this concept myself for many years. The idea is that as you are dressing for work (uniform, vest, and duty gear) you try to shift metal gears from all of your issues and distractions of your personal life into a professional mindset focused around officer safety. This also includes doing a check of your various pieces of gear like sidearm, flashlight, cuffs, etc to ensure that they are functioning properly.

By ritualizing this it allows you to shift into your professional persona and remove distractions from your mind while stamping the process of checking your tools.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

The thing about "becoming" a character is I'm not sure that's what Rich is striving for or if we are attempting to access the needed attributes of that "character". when I first started working on Rich's psychological aspects of his training I was constantly reminded of the scene in Bruce Lee's "Enter the Dragon" where he is teaching the younger student. I don't think we neccessarily need the emotion, but its content and energy.

For a blast from the past for your consideration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDW6vkuqGLg

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

markh,
Agree with you about the uniform and the gear being the shift between states. I think what Grossman was talking about was more about soldiers returning from war with no formal integration ritual back into 'the tribe'/society -performed BY the tribe. I think that was his main point as I understand it - You create warriors in time of need, train them to be skilled and efficient at their job - breaking the social taboo of killing say, then after they are done, they have to return, and have to be given a place back in society within the social norms of behavior.
As I remember it, he posits that the reason so many Vietnam vets have PTSD problems, is because they were pretty much just dumped on a plane home, arriving to a barrage of anti war sentiment, with no obvious path to re integration.

As far as the attributes vs character change ...therein lies the fine line eh? How do you internalize the attributes without changing who you are? I read somewhere, I think in that great book 'Blink', that for instance facial expression IS your emotional state, not a byproduct of it. If you manifest attributes ...you do change character on some level.
Just a thought.

For a minute there I got the impression that somebody here is also somebody else..

Truly ironic in a discussion about 'Supra States'.



Anyway, nobody's touched on this one. In response to my feeble previous answers, I bring my offering:

Fight Club



HOWZATTTTTT!!!
By the way, a very interesting thread that makes the imagination work overtime. That's the path to learning.. Thanks.

Mike,

I was trying to obey the first rule of FightClub , but now that it's out there I think it's a close example. I do have to agree with Maija about how many characters in fiction seem to have there alter ego given/forced on them as oppossed to developed by them. The thing about FightClub is that the Tyler personality was subconsciously created.


Maybe there is potential here for Rich to branch out and write a book or series of books where the main character uses Rich's concepts to build another persona using Suprastates and other concepts, you know incorporating the various concepts in which you learn while being engaged by the story. It seems to be a growing trend such as Geoff Thompson's book "RED MIST" or Brooks Kubik's series on old school wightlifting "Legacy of Iron".


Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

Tyler is the Masonic Guard. That book and film is so very blatantly actually revealing the Elite's Mind Kontrolled Legion of Slave Agents, particularly the "Terrorists" and Saboteurs, not about psychosocial commentary as all the pundits would have it. I lob this link in like a random hand grenade: http://www.plim.org/MControl.htm
If you can't see it then you have an deficient education or just not inquired into the subject intensely enough.
No point in getting all defensive about one's great intelligence. Fact is: Tyler is the Masonic Guard. Why do you suppose the name was chosen for this "fictional entertainment art" if the FreeMasons have nothing to do with it?

BTW Have you noticed Edward Norton is being typecast as a MPD MK vic? I saw him act it nicely in his rarely shown second film from 1996, "Primal Fear ".
Perhaps he is not acting so much from imagination but from memory? I suspect so...
Ha! Just read this on imdb.com. "His father, Edward Norton Sr. was an attorney for president Jimmy Carter".
So he is just an average guy, Ed. Ha! The A-list are all Bloodline, peons. Wakey wakey before it is too late!
Speaking of Actors, Tom Cruise and Travolta are under the Scientologists, see http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/mpd-did.htm
Brad Pitt and Angelina are typical MK puppets... oh look, the PittFace, he played the Tyler. Small world.

I also note from a google of "Norton Mind Control" that : "The Manchurian Candidate" (New York, New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1991). Small world.
Also, the antivirus GUARD on this laptop is NORTON. It is an interesting name but I will spare you an esoteric analysis.
I see his first film, a American-English Language educatonal called "Only in America", has him play many roles "Duane / James / Bruno / Eric / The Museum Guard (as Ed Norton)", GUARD again! Bruno is the really dodgy name though...

As for Supra-states, let's look for ideal models. Don't worry. I don't knock anyone's ego in this bit.

If we have some superwarrior, raised to fight by a longline of champion fighters and military Elite, who is invulnerabvle to ordinary attackers owing to his superawareness, reactions and toughness etc... then I imagine he could easily project a bonechilling threat to any viewers.
The question is, would that be as effective as a simple thuggish malevolence, would our hero have to be acquainted with nasty feelings? I feel he would have already mastered anger and have mastered the remaining little fear of violence so that his CONFIDENCE would be a deterent. Clearly confidence is not the same as nastiness.I feel this is related to the "Voice of Command", that verbal/sonic (it does not need words, just tone) imperative that rulers employ for effect on their subjects... officers to subordinates... parents to children. Anger and implied threat is certainly present there, the children dare not risk the wrath of the parent, even though logically their actual punishment they might mete out may be not that bad, the emotional confidence that the dominator has the power and desire to make the beating of the stick worse than the wear of compliance to their will is enough to gain a usually instant submission, at a animal level. Simple dominating intimidation.

Perhaps our champ could access and project this state of malevolence without having to train it in, to feed it, simply drawing on his memory and familiarity with anger and violence, not necessarily his own anger but that of many oppponents over the years who lost their temper. He would of course be cool as a cucumber in most situations.
How much real hostility would our man have to be intimate with to learn the frankly sadistic mindset a thug might have? Lesser in terrorising ability but still very scary would be the rare professional gangster who coldly hurts without any personal emotional involvement, just doing his job. He would project very scary in a different way as the humanity of sadism has been replaced by the ruthlessness and determined efficency of the juggernaut robot, the dreadnought terminator.

Oh, I have more to say but need some fresh air and negative ions so I am outta here. Back later, be cool.