... nicely to Mark Twain: "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme".

history, there is another subject Ive only recently gotten a proper taste for

that is down to British national treasure Stephen Fry and his excellent tv show Q.I. ... (a round of which this forum section is named after, I made this section so that forum people could educate me, its MY general ignorance - bit of free education from people with diverse backgrounds and interests, perk of the job like)

and reading them historical novels what are not accurate but what stimulate the imaginasium

Danite, I really wanted to get into it with you about judaism being polytheistic in origin, but I worry about pissing people off because

relgion and politics are those two precious subjects that seem to make people drop reason faster than you can say "but thats not what I said..."

here is another Mark Twain quote

Quote:

“In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other”

_________________
“One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.”

Nietzsche

Richie please feel free, I have been a history freak for years and have discussed all kinds of things.In fact the history of Judaism and ancient near eastern religions is a particular favorite of mine,my views on these subjects are that of a historian, I will not get offended at all.As I am very busy these days I might be a bit tardy in responding but I will have more time next week.Judaism as we know it today is thr result of a very long and complex process that involved many aspects and elements.In modern Judaism we can see elements drawn from as far back as the Bronze age.I would be happy to discuss it with you, as well it seems people here are quite level headed and thoughful in general,lets give it a try if you wish.Regards

Sweeeet


new thread created

Studying history is important in my opinion as it allows one to follow the development of many ideas and situations we have today over time. This makes it much harder for certain types to sell us all kinds of tendentious constructs as they are banking on our lack of general knowledge to allow them to "get away with it" It is unfortunate that history is often taught as something that happened in past and is gone, rather it should be taught from the present day back showing the many roots of
what we have today, making the connections all the way back to the ancients.We would be suprised at how much from the ancients still influences us today.After the fall of Rome the germanic barbarians had to re learn civilisation again slowly but surely over the centuries, this lead them back to the Greeks, the Romans and Judeo Christian notions of religion, social obligations and morality, these are the three pillars of western civilisation.Happy reading!!!!

tendentious = Marked by a strong implicit point of view

new word learned, double points!

Completely agree. Cant know where your going, unless you know where you've been.

I didn't see this thread before, but just noticed it now and that "why Afghanistan?" was mentioned... well, here's why...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline

You naughty boy DMB.

Interesting as well is the amount of money the CIA were making form heroin exports from Afghanistan. This matters not because they're greedy per se, but more because it would allow them to fund further operations.. So much for the War on Drugs.

I say 'were', because I have a hunch the Taliban banned planting poppies and making the stuff.

Bad Taliban! Bad! Bad Dog!

And every dog .. has it's day.

That's what I heard too. The taliban stopped the export.

The same herion exports that are alive and well today.

Then you have books like this http://www.righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/cr15.htm

I love wiki....here's more 'naughty' facts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin

"The cultivation of opium in Afghanistan reached its peak in 1999, when 225,000 acres—350 square miles—of poppies were sown. The following year the Taliban banned poppy cultivation, a move which cut production by 94 percent. By 2001 only 30 square miles of land were in use for growing opium poppies. A year later, after American and British troops had removed the Taliban and installed the interim government, the land under cultivation leapt back to 285 square miles, with Afghanistan supplanting Burma to become the world's largest opium producer once more. Opium production in that country has increased rapidly since, reaching an all-time high in 2006. War in Afghanistan once again appeared as a facilitator of the trade. Some 3.3 million Afghans are involved in producing opium."

CIA sponsored trafficking was also ongoing during the Vietnam was as well.

Interesting when you think about the politics of a 'war on dugs' when in reality there seem to be wars OVER drugs...

The CIA has obviously employed the strategy of funding a rebel force through the drug trade in order to destabilize and oust another regime. We know Bin Laden and Co. were funded and trained by the CIA in the 80's to drive out the Soviet's from Afghanistan. Looks like in 2000 the relationship went sour when the Taliban stopped heroin production.

Yep, despite the fact that drugs are seized when encountered, they go to the building of the local establishment, who more often than not take the chance to sell them on anyway.

Farmers grow them because you can get more money than from grain (I believe). They certainly don't grow them out of choice.

Yet again, princes go to war and the little people suffer.

On the other hand though, Iran is surrounded and Pakistan has been forced to rally against it's autonomous Western provinces (tribal owned, and very much tribally run - Army & Police 'no-go' zones).

'An enemy of my enemy is my friend'?

America has a lot of diplomatic [military] might in the Middle East, in a time of oil crisis and apparently a pretty fluid situation in Iran (as ever). I wonder how much CIA money is flowing into Iran through the borders of Iraq and Afghanistan?

naughty facts, eh?

I love a nughty fact me


I once read that our economies are addicted to the drug trade, without it our ecomonies crumble and as such our governements have a vested interest in keeping it controlled and kept flowing