I'm in the process of dropping out of education again (Uni this time..), and as if by coincidence was made aware of *THIS* bloke by MarkH in *this* thread.

I'm a Sixth Form & Uni dropout, and have no idea what I'd like to do for the next 60 years of my life (I think very few of us do). Motivation and self-discipline are the problem, but I've found that whenever it comes to learning for a purpose i'm quite capable. At the moment i'm reading up on basic mechanics (theory) due to getting a new car, and read a full book on welding when there was a possibility of having to fix a van up for a mate. Both of these subjects I found technically interesting. I'm very capable when it comes to learning, but my motivation is always nil unless i'm specifically interested in the subject in hand.

Aside from personal impressions about the author, is it possible to self-educate yourself to a skill level that makes you employable in a field you'd enjoy working in? Practical (hands on) training is vastly more important than theory, but is it possible to learn so much theory that you can hop back on the education wagon to get specific certificates etc..?

Sticky subject, and i'm by no means saying that it's wise to forego formal education or qualifications. But if there's a chance.. I'm straining at the leash to get stuck into something and i'd exploit it to it's full potential.

If anyone's read the book do they mind telling me if it's worth buying (as a guide)? Or if it's more just a presentation of theory by the author. Many thanks, Mike.

(I've had a look at the Amazon reviews, but they are less specific to the question above)

Im an advocate of self education

in fact I would say self education is the only form, schools and teachers merely provide an evironment in which self education can occur

I know a bit about the subject, having taught meself loads of things that people then paid me for, including how to teach and how to learn

my job up until a few years ago was training school students how to learn and teachers how to teach, what a whacky 2 and a half years that was

Quote:

Aside from personal impressions about the author, is it possible to self-educate yourself to a skill level that makes you employable in a field you'd enjoy working in? Practical (hands on) training is vastly more important than theory, but is it possible to learn so much theory that you can hop back on the education wagon to get specific certificates etc..?

yes and yes


as long as your not kidding yourself or kidding anyone else about what you are genuinely capable of OR your paper qualifications its all gravy

(see how I distinguished "capability" and "qualification"?- this from the man on whose forum you write who has not a qualification to instruct to his name? did I mention Im an advocate of self education? )

_________________
“One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.”

Nietzsche

Mike 2010,

I originally became interested in this book due to my youngest daughters difficulties with school. She is very bright , but had a hard time in school due dis-interest and boredom. She is continuing her education through a non-traditional path. The thing about this book is it does lay out some alternate thoughts on education and learning that are proving not on useful to her(I gave her a copy to read), but serves to motivate her to pursue her interests to create a path of employment/success.


Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

Thanks for the quick replies guys, genuine food for thought here and very er.. run out of words now.. emancipating? Enlightening.

Encouraging!

Edit: Thanks again for passing on the idea Mark.

good luck Mike2010,

my situation was similar and different. i have dyslexia, and i have the same 'need to
be interested' mode to put for that above average effort for my slow reading skills.
my IQ--not that it matters, was up past 142 consistantly, and other so called indicators
of culturally accepted smartipantness.

at first i was taking courses that slatted me for oceanography/marine-science, then suddenly
had some vision of m'self, testing dirty water samples in a room full of nerds...instead of
diving with jaques-somebody-or-other, and the camera rolling. it was, "end of..." for desire to
continue. even as it helped me 'not at all', i enrolled in anthropology JUST to make me finish.
in this country, even as i also ascribe to self education, that degree is the first indicator that
folks can take you seriously. i used it to walk into a completely unrelated field. hmmm
...so find your favorite subject if you're going back, AND self educate yourself,
my humble 2p.

I agree that you can't know what you want to do, and who knows if you'll spend 60 years doing the same thing. I certainly did not.
I love learning 'stuff'. I find it interesting to research and investigate things I don't know about, but as you say, it has to be a subject that grabs your attention, though this subject may or may not be able to 'pay the rent' as it were.
That's the tricky part.
I'm personally irritated with the lack of respect for blue collar work and craftsmen in particular. I have huge respect for highly skilled mechanics, welders and carpenters etc. Back in the day you apprenticed to a journeyman and learned by doing. IMO it's one of the best ways of learning, especially if you can find a really high quality individual to show you the ropes.
I am hugely 'overqualified' for the job I do, at least in most peoples' eyes, but as it turns out I like to be physically active, which is probably why I ended up with a physical job (painting and decorating/construction). It also is very satisfying, and feels like I am accomplishing something 'real' in the world. It also means I can geek out on my martial arts passion instead of being stuck behind a desk!
I can't say that I would still do this job if I could afford not to, but as a way of paying my way through life it's awesome for me.

Not really answering you self learning question, but I guess I'm saying don't limit your thinking about how to make your way through life to the 'box' society puts around what life should be, or what has status, or is worthy.
Whatever you choose to do, do well. Have pride in it, and be the best you can be.

ah by the way, gotta tip the hat again to Stephen Fry again, who this section is named after

And just to throw something else into the conversation....

Learning difficulties, Dyslexia, ADD, ADHD... what a load of shit! Just because somebody has a brain that is right-side (hemisphere?) dominant doesn't mean that they are having difficulties. It just means they're not supposed to be number-crunching categorizing robot worker bees.

God forbid that a kid might actually have some creative energy in them. Who wants to live in a world that has individuals who are capable of expressing themselves creatively? What nightmare that would be

And on the subject of left/right brain hemispheres... any left handed folk in the house?

One of the biggest failings of modern schooling IMHO is the direct linking of learning/schooling, to work and getting a job.
OK so we've all got to function in society, read, write, add up etc, but if there are no jobs, or they are shite, or society just wants factory drones, then why learn anything, if the job is the only reason you are there?
Now, if on the other hand, becoming a creative member of the planet is your goal, then learning takes on a whole different flavour, and becomes a way of exploring and understanding how to contribute something to this 'ere place we live.
I interact with a martial arts friend who was a school teacher in Alaska for a while, who had constant fights with admin about his perceived 'wayward' teaching style. I agree when he says that one of the best things, if not THE thing, you can, and should teach children, is critical thinking.

First to Sharif H,

Talk with your son regularly, try to keep him mentally challenged, and watch him while he learns/figres things out and then ask him how he figured things out. Doing this may give you clues as to how he proesses information and learns. If he does go to public school stay engaged in his learning. I was lucky enough wiht my oldest daughter that she thrived at school because of some teachers and in spite of others and eventually graduated as validictorian of a class of 300 students ( yes I'm a proud dad), but this was because she is a dangerous combination of intelligence and self motivation with a passion for reading (that part I can take some responsibility for).

The younger is more of a free spirit (she's just turned seventeen) with a sharp wit, raw intelligence, strong willed with the nack for questioning why (particularlly from authority including me) she doesn't thrive within structure, but flourishes when given an objective without being told how to achieve it.

If you take the home schooling route you will need to make sure he gets opportunities to gain skills in socialization through interaction with peers as well as keeping the curicicullum challenging. Here in the states we also have the computer based learning option with several variations. Again at your son's age you will need to ensure social opportunities.

Always stay supportive, but when they ask to try something new make sure you make an agreement to stick with it for a predetermined length of time, otherwise they won't learn the value of perseverence.

Finally, don't talk down to your kids. Explain things to the best of their understanding and they will learn to trust you and your decisions more. (They may not like what they hear but they will respect you for not feeding them BS). I always taught my kids to answer questions not just respond to them, and always try to listen and understanding what is said before answering or giving their opinions.

Ultimately though you can completely ignore me and find your own way, but the one thing I can say is be part of the process because as the article Maija posted you never know 'Who is Training Whom' and you might just learn as much from him as he learns from you.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H