MarkH

Thanks very much for your wisdom. There's actually quite a bit to think about in there. One thing is for sure - I'll always be highly involved in his schooling. As subtly as possible I guess. I wouldn't want him to feel I was controlling him or his life

Mike, you're a pretty extraordinary cat your self. Your ability to step outside of your head and observe your self and your life from an outside perspective is what pretty much guarantees you will be successful in the things you do but most importantly HAPPY throughout your life.

This may be a little off-topic for this thread, but the self observation means that you don't fully identify with your egoic mind... which is rare in this crazy world. To get a better understanding of what that means I highly recommend The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle (when you get the time to read it of course)

RE: the ambidextrous thing... yes. yes it does

I've just read the introduction.

It is.. Unsettling but in the same way that always is when something bypasses the conscious. The last time I felt like this was when using Richards visualisations cd, and before that with some Paul McKenna stuff.

Please accept a huge thanks Sharif!


Now where was I.. oh yes, 'Welcome to the rabbit hole, Alice'

Sharif H,

Are you right eye dominant? That would explain the use of the right hand for targeting related activities like shooting and throwing. Just asking because your picture looks that way , what with the weapon more centered to that eye and the slight lean to the weapon. Good luck with the education thing with your son.

Mike 2010,

Just remember something my grandmother told me when I was young ( by the way she was a teacher by proffession),

"The day you stop learning is the day you start dying"

this quote and a passion for reading are the two most important things she ever gave me.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

I'm all for self-education.









Maybe investing in a couple more bookshelves would be an idea...

Mike2010 wrote:

Aside from personal impressions about the author, is it possible to self-educate yourself to a skill level that makes you employable in a field you'd enjoy working in? Practical (hands on) training is vastly more important than theory, but is it possible to learn so much theory that you can hop back on the education wagon to get specific certificates etc..? Sticky subject, and i'm by no means saying that it's wise to forego formal education or qualifications. But if there's a chance.. I'm straining at the leash to get stuck into something and i'd exploit it to it's full potential.

Knowledge is knowledge. Formal schooling is all about red tape. And ironically, in the zest for qualification of knowledge, actual understanding of material often suffers.

The conveyor-belt world most people live in has very little to offer me. Maybe creature-comforts and the safety of habit. But I find it disgusting. Their models of the world are not useful to me. It is essentially pathetic. A very domesticated world. If all they want is to graze all day and let that be the story of their lives, then fuck them. I am in pursuit of personal power and excellence. To exist on another level entirely. Shit, I'm only 24 but I'm beginning to look at people with old-man's-eyes. Pah! I know better than to kid myself with that kind of talk.

Back on topic. You talk about what to do. I assume work. There are two reasons for working. Business or pleasure. You either just enjoy it or do it to finance yourself. Most professions these days will require you to get qualified through schooling. But remember; business or pleasure. A profession is secondary to that.

Communication is basically salesmanship. Selling your ideas in conversations, persuading people and so on. And money is the fuel of your life. Both can be self-taught and applied without needing to be qualified by anyone. Read up on selling and how all things money work and that can really get you somewhere.

_________________
"I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me." — Archirocus, 650 BC

The more I learn about the members of this forum, the more extraordinary you all become. Invaluable advice Rich, even more books will be arriving at my house next week.

Mark

Yep, I'm right-eye dominant. And thanks again!

RichardB

You're only 24 too? Still, that's no excuse for being so untidy! Get some book shelves dude! If you check out the videos on the link in the first post of this thread that Buccaneering scholar guy has a really cool revolving bookshelf. I'm looking into to getting one! Looks like it saves a lot of space.

Ok all please have patience with me because all of this education talk has suddenly taken a sudden turn for me in my thought process.

A little background on me. I'm a 48 year old man who did some substantial world travel (mostly in the early 1980's) who managed a college education (degree in criminal justice). Married with children, divorced remarried (the love of my life) with two more step children. I have going on 22 years in law enforcement preceded by several interesting jobs running from auto mechanic, investment counselor, high steel construction, and assistant to an MIT electrical engineer. I have been an avid reader since age four (thanks Grandma) and have a high level of retention.

Now recently I have been concerned about what is going on in my chosen field of endeavor since my fellow officers throughout the U.S. have been making more and more mistakes in judgment and abuses of power. I've been giving this a lot of thought trying to figure out what’s going on. Then I transitioned to considering the field of education and slowly it seems to be coming into focus. You see in my youth it seems both fields did a pretty good job of meeting their goals.

Now I know aspects of both jobs have changed such as laws governing how to accomplish the goals when in fact the two most important changes appear to be the two following things.

1) The goals themselves.
Police work became law enforcement changing from a system of justice to a legal system and conformity.

Teaching transitioned from education to indoctrination and conformity. (See a common thread here)

2) The people themselves.
In the case of both fields they were respected and both were callings ( people went into them from a sense of duty and a passion for the field in spite of conditions and low pay) that became occupations attracting people to the improved money and benefits.

Sorry for the shifting from educational theory to why the change in the profession, but does anyone have any insights or opinions. Thanks in advance.

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

RichardB wrote

Quote:

Shit, I'm only 24 but

say what now?

Quote:

Sorry for the shifting from educational theory to why the change in the profession, but does anyone have any insights or opinions. Thanks in advance

not really,
other than the education system in the Uk is chocka with people who became teachers because they didnt know what else to do and that is a BIG let down for the kids- if your there for the money, you shouldnt fucking be there

I imagine its the same with the police, I never got in, but I imagine its the type of role that you do need to care about

other possible reasons other than an agenda of social conformity...

a tendency for modern western culture to breed selfish, materialistic, narcisstic, self centred, uncaring sociopaths who have no sense of community or contribution and no value beyond that which is immediately and personally gratifying

in reading about narcisstic personality disorder I came across the term "moral autism"

its a good term, describes the tendency we see now perfectly:
over achievement issues, neurotic competitiveness, back stabbing, manipulation, back door methods first, every man for himself attitudes and a view that "everyone is my enemy and the world is out to get me", the world is hostile and harsh, so I must be hostile and harsh to survive, do unto others before it is done unto you

(an attitudinal trap that SP heads can sometimes fall into, be wary)

should people who lean that way really be policing us and teaching our children?

if people who have been infected with the greed and hostility virus, symptoms including a ansty case of "moral autism", then join the ranks of new officers as the old guard retires are you likely to see an increase in abuses of power and shitty decision making?

dont get me started on how the education system crushes critical thinking skills

anyway, it just a theory

I put it to yous for your consideration

_________________
“One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.”

Nietzsche

Wow - There are alot of great thoughts here - Here's some more to add to the conversation:

"Moral Autism" - nice term, but why is it so?
Did this become a tendency in society because of a lack of trust? In authority? In others? Or perhaps fear?
Did that lack of trust stem from the glorification of the individual above the group? The acceptance of the pursuit of power and money for self gain as the main goals in life? Survival of the fittest as 'the rule of the jungle' above all else?
Did this perception that everyone is out for themselves create an environment where everyone is perceived to be working 'an angle' and so not to be trusted .....? And so the circle goes.
Point being, if we all seem to be 'out for ourselves', no individual can be trusted to work for the 'common good', because there is no 'common good'.

markh quote:
"1) The goals themselves.
Police work became law enforcement changing from a system of justice to a legal system and conformity.

Teaching transitioned from education to indoctrination and conformity. (See a common thread here)"

This is very insightful IMHO. Perhaps this change from justice to law enforcement in it's literal sense - i.e. taking the individual out of the process - is a consequence of this lack of trust?
Perhaps this conformity in schools is also a product of this lack of trust - taking the individuals out of the process - as a form of control?

I don't have much time here, so this is not put together real well, but to add one more thing.
There are obviously many people questioning this path out there - one direction is clamping down more and more controls on the system to keep 'stable' - (Fear?)
But there is also research in the other direction, looking at natural ecosystems for instance, that survival of the fittest is not the only way nature works. For instance, I have a botanist friend who studies rainforest trees and flowers. She says that her conclusion is that an ecosystem working well, produces way more flowers and seeds etc than is necessary for individual plant reproduction, and that her theory is that the members of the ecosystem 'understand' that abundance gives the system the best chance for survival.
It seems obvious that humans survived for millenia as groups. It will be interesting to see if we can gain back that trust of working together again ...?

More thoughts later

Lack of trust individualism and the jungle mentality. I believe that it is a real and valid point of view. The world really is like that. The reason it is common is because it works.

But.

Within our TRIBES of vetted people. We know them, they know us. Or someone we know knows and so on. If they are bad for others, word will spread and at some point they can be ostracised. Tribes is how we created havens from the full fledged jungle "survival of the fittest" world.

In the past you could live your entire life within a stable tribe. Be born there, grow up there, start a family there and die there. The new world is moving FAST. Everything is fluctuating. The tribes are scattered. Few are a part of real communities. Everyone are individuals. And individuals are not individuals, they are numbers. Maybe because of technology, but also this.

http://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html

I'll quote part of it, but the whole thing is a good read.

Quote:

First, picture a monkey. A monkey dressed like a little pirate, if that helps you. We'll call him Slappy. Imagine you have Slappy as a pet. Imagine a personality for him. Maybe you and he have little pirate monkey adventures and maybe even join up to fight crime. Think how sad you'd be if Slappy died. Now, imagine you get four more monkeys. We'll call them Tito, Bubbles, Marcel and ShitTosser. Imagine personalities for each of them now. Maybe one is aggressive, one is affectionate, one is quiet, the other just throws shit all the time. But they're all your personal monkey friends. Now imagine a hundred monkeys. Not so easy now, is it? So how many monkeys would you have to own before you couldn't remember their names? At what point, in your mind, do your beloved pets become just a faceless sea of monkey? Even though each one is every bit the monkey Slappy was, there's a certain point where you will no longer really care if one of them dies. So how many monkeys would it take before you stopped caring? That's not a rhetorical question. We actually know the number.

Interestingly, when I was in the army, each troop was at about 150 people. Divided into several smaller teams. The escadron has several troops, but the they were "the others." Well outside of my monkeysphere. Very strange guys. Much stranger than the guys in my troop, and we were of course much better.

We have tons of wiring and programming. For a society to work smoothly and optimally it has to acknowledge this and work with it. But the modern world is largely based on the notion that we are entirely rational creatures. That is untrue. We have the potential to be under certain circumstances, but it cannot be expected.

There are so many people today, and society changes so fast that tribes don't get off the ground. Not like they do under stable conditions. And also, using the army as an example when they use hardship to bond people through cooperation. Where real trust comes from. Technology has made the world so comfortable that this rarely happens with groups.

Someone said that nothing fails like success. Well it looks like our success is our problem here.

There is bound to be a lot more, but this seems like a big part of it.

_________________
"I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me." — Archirocus, 650 BC

By the way. On self-education relating to this subject. This book was very interesting. Easy to read as it is well-written. It is human nature 101. A lot of things clicked into place after reading it. Highly recommended.

http://www.amazon.com/Man-Nature-Programming-Controlling-Behavior/dp/0615280250/ref=ed_oe_p

Quote:

Product Description Man by Nature is based upon the ongoing brain research that is providing new insight into how our brain functions. It shows how the left-brain Interpreter function makes it possible for us to be instinct-driven tribal territorial animals - consistently quarreling and warring with one another - and yet to be oblivious of the instincts provoking our behavior. The book identifies ten traits characteristic of human tribes, and develops a "Tribal Programming Theory of Human Behavior" that explains most observed human behavior remarkably well: It makes the case that human tribes are based primarily upon shared tribal beliefs that are defended as fiercely and irrationally as territory, thus making it almost impossible for religious and political tribes (for example) to discuss issues rationally. It concludes by weighing what will be required for the world and its tribes to eventually live in peace, given the new knowledge of our human nature. Another Product Description Why Can't We All Live In Peace? Because we're not programmed that way. We are programmed to be tribal territorial animals, and although we think that we are rational, our tribal programming causes us to consistently do irrational things and to wonder why we do them. . This has been our history . our "human dilemma." The "hidden programming" controlling our behavior is now being revealed through the research of neuroscientists studying how the brain functions. Based on that research, this book presents a "Tribal Programming Theory of Human Behavior" that answers many of the questions that have long perplexed us.

_________________
"I have a high art, I hurt with cruelty those who would damage me." — Archirocus, 650 BC

I love this forum.

Just got back from a political demonstration in London where we were having some really enlightened conversations about all sorts - one of which was self education over academia.

Who would of thought that I would be having the same conversations with SP guys on a website called STREET FIGHT secrets.com.

Awesome!

Just to add, this might not be relevant to anyone apart from me, but here is an interesting site I found with regards to 'Doing what you enjoy'.

The author does a good job of explaining his views on education in our culture.

It also made me think a lot differently about what 'Prestige' means.
If you fancy reading it, just think a little first about what prestigious positions in society there are, and what 'prestige' means in your immediate work environment.
To skip straight to this section, search for the bit titled 'Sirens'.

Regards!

http://www.paulgraham.com/love.html

is the lack of a like minded tribe what causes forums like this to flourish? are we looking to rebalance a missing natural state?

tribe = recognition, status, attention, sginificance, a role, a function... a "place"

a tribeless society, typical urban environment , gives you huge amounts of access to a variety of people but its all irrevelant without the above needs being met I think

now, back to bed