Sorry

I was not clear, I was on a roll

I wasnt trying to say paras are modern berserkers, they arent, they are professional soldiers and going berserk "biting your shields" and killing anything that moved whether friend of foe wouldnt be helpful or effective

what I was trying to do was to illustrate a point that a whole life lived aggressively in and around violence/ aggression is not something most of us softies can relate to

if you live that way, aggression is easy

if you lived like a viking going berserk might be a peice of piss, no need to stretch for a reason: was it mushrooms, was it alcholol

Im sort of pushing the point that its entirely possible it was all "natural"

though obviously having not lived in that time I cant discount it wasnt drugs

didnt a certain native american tribe hack at themselves and each other with knives in initiation ceremonies? altered states of consciousness are natural and can be induced without drugs, chanting, dancing, repetitive rythms, altered light, sensory deprivation have all been used with good effect over the years

so, um

the paras dont take drugs and they are aggressive as fuck

maybe the vikings didnt take drugs- is my point in a sentence

Quote:

Our Corporal said that he didn't feel fear when he went into combat, he felt excited. Probably exaggerating, but then he had already passed SAS selection and was a jungle warfare expert..

I think its entirely possible that he felt no fear and only excitment- not many emotional states are rational or justified, god knows your corporal should have felt fear if he thought rationally and in terms of consequence

but thank god he taught himself not to eh? he will be a better solider for it Im sure, in his reality he probably thinks at some level "it wont happen to me" and that belief however erroneous will allow him to perform with more confidence and skill

I think RichB already mentioned "functional insanity" but there is a great case for saying that SF types must have it if they want to pass and then do the job without going... well... insane ....

or shitting out.




I recorded the new supra states cd today, and then this topic comes up and goes in this direction

coincidence

good stuff

_________________
“One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.”

Nietzsche

Sorry if I came accross wrong, I wasn't trying to contradict mate, just supplement (you're the psychologist ).

Oddly it occurred to me earlier that biting on shields sort of ties in with what RichB said earlier about the symptoms of toxic poisoning.

There are certainly ways to will oneself not to feel pain. Meditation is one way.

Look at Samurai performing ritual suicide or 'seppuko' Plenty of accounts here of a samurai not just cutting once, but several times... one such account describes a defeated general throwing his own bowels at his enemies.

and if your life is in danger, surviving outweighs any pesky little pain.

I was in a bad car accident a few years ago... broken nose, broken hand. I was unconscious for a minute and when I woke up there was smoke everywhere. All I knew was I needed to get out of the car, and I opened the door with my hand that was broken in three places. I didn't feel a thing, and found it curious how difficult it was to open the door lol.

"Why is my hand so floppy? come on hand... wait you dont usually bend like that..."



I once read that proper seppuku was 2 cuts: one across the abdomen a second up to the sternum, a big "L" shaped hole that ensures everything falls out nicely

what kind of altered state/tenacity of resolve has someone acheived to do this? the mind boggles really


but as I say when a humans entire life and culture points in a direction people just follow along

again look at the military as an example- if we all lived in some complex whereby there was some fitness / strength standard tested weekly, eventually, barring injury or incapacity, we would meet it, whatever it was, over a long enough time line- groupthink and the power of shame , social norms, much more powerful than we realise I think

read the Strategos Navy Seal article on Lowest Common Denominator Training and how he as trainer used Navy Seals training techniques on "lesser" marines and consequently raised their game- its all about raising the standard... we will sink or raise to the standard whatever it is

Maija posted the article under the thread "who is training who" and I highly highly recommend you read it

might shed a bit of light on this "going berserk" phenomena


ps as to the biting sheilds thing - I personally am very very skeptical of 10 th hand historical accounts written in a different time line how can artistic license not creep in?

http://streetfightsecrets.darkbb.com/psychology-f1/who-is-training-whom-t1180.htm?highlight=who+is+training+who

by Ken J Good - the most informative eye opening article Ive read in years, and I read these things for a living

Hey all,

Some very interesting thoughts from all around and I third the accolades for the training article (some really good stuff in there). Isn't it interesting what we humans can do under the right circumstances and/or with the right training or conditioning. Things you couldn't envision yourself ever doing one day become acceptable on another ( I have a keen interest survival stories like "Deep Survival". I have two such incidents that stand out in my mind. One was having to set my own dislocated shoulder after a fall in the wilderness so I could climb back to civilization and another was stitching a gash in my leg back up when no medical assistance was viable ( sorry but I was not as tough as Stallone in "Rambo", it hurt both times and there was some substantial swearing going on).

Coincidently last night I happened to catch the old movie "Eric the Viking" on TV. Pay attention to this clip about one minute into the scene.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAe3NLbaZfU&feature=player_embedded

Keep safe and train hard/smart, Mark H

I can remember on a few occasions fidning myself in situations that were genuinely threatening, and the only way out was to blast out,I reacted like a wild animal.Rage in battle has its place, when things get desperate and all the skill and training will not overcome, then use the gifts nature has given,become an animanl a rabid beast,it is ialmost impossible to control or fight someone in that state.