article is here http://www.streetfightsecrets.net/41.html

let me know what you think

I posted this in the news/updates forum, but thought I'd re-paste it here too....



Saw the vlog and read the blog.

Very nice. Great article actually. It's funny how the creative energy flows when you are relaxing on a beach in Thailand innit? I enjoyed reading it and look forward to stealing some of your material when explaining in my next seminar why 'conditioning' (instead of simply teaching or training) is the key to effective SP skills.

Out of interest, did the girl charge you extra to hold the camera for you?

Seriously though, thanks for taking time out of your vacation to do this (I know you don't see it that way, but hey)

You want your Combative Supra State to be very aggressive, vindictive, quick to temper, slow to think (of consequences), the type of person who hits first and asks questions later, violent, even sadistic, the kind of person who would make even an experienced criminal predator think twice.

This is what Lee Morrison has referred to as “the shotgun under the overcoat”

Why mess around? If you are going to do it, why not make this character pure evil? The kind of person no one wants to mess with. Think Jekyll and Hyde here. This thing needs to be a monster.

...if accessed properly your face will seem to “change shape” as it were), of posture, breathing pattern, movement, accent, thought processes, energy, everything. Your whole being will be affected until there is nothing of your original personality left other than a very small “observer” who can pull back and take back over if things start to go too far


OKAY, HOW CAN YOU NOT LOVE THIS...


I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU LOT, BUT I'M READY TO GO LOOK VULNERABLE AND SIT IN
A DRESS IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR ZONE. LINDA BLAIR THE MUSS.

I'M SOLD. WHERE DO I SIGN. WHEN DOES THE TRANSFORMATION BEGIN

I agree fully.Once a determination has been made that force is the name of the game, then yes one should be able to transform into monster, a type of beast, boiling with rage ,and hate, a destructive fury.In other words one is on a an even playing field with the aggressor, but we may add the extra feul of righteous indignation to the mix.Like Richie has said, rage will over come fear, rage will build you up.We all know how to fight, it is natural to man,let the inner monster come to the surface when needed, you will have alot of power and strength.

Ritchie, you like sci-fi. Read "Blackman" (renamed as "Thirteen") by Richard Morgan? Makes me think of the mindset training your offering.

I am very worried that if Rus gets his hands on it, it would be like unleashing the Hulk on Washington D.C.

And funnily enough just finished a novel in which a thoroughly decent & justifiably violent hero ascribes different personalities to his persona depending on circumstances. Calls them, civilian, cop & warrior. Supra-states in fiction.

Well i went for it & took you up on the offer. Ordered the supra states module, Asked for the core visualisation CD & knife app DVD.

Went for the knife stuff be cause Rus has been quite vocal about how much he's enjoying it & core visualisation cos Ritchie suggested it & someone else recommended


Currently downloading the supra-states .wma file.
Will have a listen when I get some free time, got my son staying. Expect the postal strike to get in the way but never mind. Other people are giving this to me for Xmas. I havent told them yet

One thing I want to comment on is take the warning seriously about the techniques.

I did the psychology of violence exercises a few times and it was powerful. I actually started to quite enjoy fighting. But luckily not to the level of starting shit with people who don't deserve it. If only I could have such a big change in my confidence with women

Now i've had a few realizations as I may of posted a while ago, and now my preference is to avoid it. When before if the option to fight was there I would most likely take it.

Now I have seen what violence can to do people, myself and others. And while I know I can handle it if it happens, I challenge myself to stop things in other ways whether it be awareness, verbal, psychological.

It did make a big difference to my mindset. So when I read about the "24 hour immersion technique" it worries me what it could do.

On a side note, I listened to some of the 'verbal confrontation' cds and it mentions being capable physically and not being able to stand up for yourself in normal ways. Like Mike Tyson who was a killer fighter but let everyone walk all over him in his life. That has been my problem and sometimes still is. And because of this i've found at times i'd prefer it to go physical because i'm more comfortable with that. Richie you hit the nail on the head..

More stuff from my self awareness to work on

glad you liked it Russ, you righteous nutter of dark renown!

I havent read "thirteen" by Richard Morgan mate, is it worth a go?

I think I will create a Supra States in fiction thread in Psychology section

Yes I would recommend the book. I have liked all Richard Morgan's books with the exception of Market Forces. His Takeshii Kovacs novels are very entertaining with good subtext. Thirteen is a pre-cursor to that series, I suppose, currently listening to it again on audio book.

Ben, thank you for the advice. I'm not looking to become a super-villain as such, I went for the current offer on the supra-states module because of the deal Ritchie was offering. Buy the module, 2 dvds or cds of your choice as an extra plus instant gratification through download I have been wanting to have a longer shufty at Rich's stuff for awhile & this was an extremely cost effective way to do it. I will however take note of your warning.

I'm mid 30s, had my bad experiences in the past, more a diplomat than I will ever be a fighter & very happy with that state of affairs, I am just interested in giving myself the permission to act or respond when something really bad happens, it has in the past. I nearly lost my left eye & had my cheekbone & orbital socket rebuilt, as well as the base of the eyesocket. My eyeball sits on a little plastic cushion, now. This was from a group attack when I was 21, I had spent the previous few mins before the assault trying to calm the situation down & thought I had when the first guy hit me & they all swarmed in. I've been in a few scraps since, come out on top & never taken damage anywhere near that extent again. But something like that stays with you.

Anyway, I'm intrigued & for just over a tenner it's a sweet deal.

And no, sorry I still havent had a chance to listen to the thing yet. Daddy duties

Be cool, all

Ritchie. I finally watched your vid at the start of this thread, which I hadnt before, assuming it to be the blacony scene from the other supra-states vid.

Thirteen, richard morgans book is very small about conditioning, the main players are geneticly created "super-soldiers", throwbacks if you will of humanity before the onset of civilisation, as such their "natural" mindset in uber predator, sociopath-psychopath.

All the books & films you mention are great examples & out of the lot Jon Ronsons book "The men who stared at Goats" is probably most germane as it deals with the real efforts of the US military (I read it last month, used to watch Jon Ronson's docs when they were on BBC2 & Ch4 back in the 90's. Angry vigilantes in wales, anyone?)

So, are these states achievable? Can/have they been achieved artificially? Well... If you take a look at our prison system it is full of people who have a Sociopath-Anti social personality disorder. Leaving aside genetic factors, there upbringing must have had a strong impact to create the numbers we see today. That Jesuit quote "Give me a child for the first 7 years, & i'll give you the man" seems to be well supported. As children we learn through classical, pavlovian conditioning & in the cases of a lot of violent adults, what they learnt was that violent behaviour got them what they wanted. They would have observed this in parents & peers & in the actions of their own tantrums & rages having a positive outcome. They get what they want. Unfortunately this became a conditioned response & hitting the man in the head with a brick because he wouldnt do what you wanted, later in life will land you nick. (Hopefully.)

But your talking about Operant conditioning are you not? Changing behaviour already ingrained to elicit a different response? Can it be done? Well if Grossman in right about the 84% of soldiers who dont fire at the enemy then it is a lot harder than you would think. The reward for the result of bad behaviour would have to be very strong, (by Bad I mean kill/torture which most of us have taken from us when we are young. But we have that in us innately right, we are hunting animals,so it is removed by operant conditioning by our dominant carers) If the original bad behaviour acting like predators which is ingrained in our genes is removed through operant conditioning, it surely could be put back, to one degree or another, by a similar method.

Modern army training methods are aimed at desensitizing you to the resistance to kill, I should think most people with a games console are well on the way, with the quality of the shoot em ups available now. Grossman on his lecture series gave an example of a school shooting where the teenager involved fired 8 shots & killed 7. Trained by playstation. This was a kill rate far surpassing most elite military units.

This has turned into a ramble & I was trying to be concise.

Anyway, can you create a supra-state, yes, we see it in many branches of the military & we see cilivians who exhibit it

Can we create a hidden personality? One which acts without the conscious mind knowing? More interesting. I have read various sources about hypnotherapy, & the one thing that stands out & Derren Brown seems to make this point, in his book, is that the individual seems to make a choice on whether or not they will be manipulated. It may not be a "concious" choice but it is a choice they make. Do we have any examples in abnormal psychology or through physical trauma to the brain, where a hidden supra-state has been created that only becomes apparent due to certain circumstances? If anyone knows of examples I would be interested

For what its worth, I have known a number of combat soldiers who went into rather intense fighting at an early age(20 years around).I asked them what they thought of when they went into a fight and how they got the nerve up to do the many dangerous things a combat soldier must do.Without exception they told me to the efffect that, all one can and should think of is their training.They said they just did as they trained and that go thtem through it well,it was only after they thought to themselves "what the fuck did I just do"?And an ancient historian noted about the romans "their training is like their fighting and their fighting is like their training" Thus we really do fight the way we train If you have the right kind of training and have ingrained it in your brain through intense scenario training and pratice, you WILL respond effectively.On the rare occasion I get an aggressive panhandler or drunk that gets in face on the street trying to block my passage and or invade my space untill I give him some change or something.Without thinking the hands come up, I become a moving target and start verbally interacting In fact street situations are often far less intense than my class training(which is amazing , train hard guys!).In effect I stop thinking about anything but my training, since my training is good, then my situation is as good as I can make it and I am ready.A big way to solve the problem of "will I or wont I" is to have the right kind of training that has been proven to be effective to you,once you have confidence IN it, you will have confidence WITH it.Thats why I appreciate what Richie is doing so much.He is one of the few that is giving the 'real stuff", the stuff that one can have confidence in to work when needed.I have no doubt that if one trains in his material, gets a partner and trains it right untill Richies "programing" is in your brain thaat you will react well and for real. The best way to prove something to yourselves is get on the protective gear and within reason get intense with each other at full speed, you will FEEL instinctually what works and you will remember that instinctual feeling when you need it.

just a quick one because I got to go

good post mate but

be careful with Grossmans data http://www.theppsc.org/Grossman/SLA_Marshall/Main.htm

and thanks Danite, that was a pretty glowing testimonial mate

Thanks Ritchie. Give that a longer read tomorrow or in a mo. cant sleep.

I was under the impression that the shooting at the enemy stat was taken from the ammo count, by which I mean when the ledgers are looked at by the quarter master, it could be seen who had signed out ammo & how much. Those who were firing would use more, those who werent, wouldnt request any. A good recent example can be found in Sniper One by Sgt. Dan Mills. (Excellent book IMHO).

I know Rory Miller questions some of Gross's sources, I have only skimmed On Killing. I have it on .pdf.

I should think that modern methods must desensitise better, that stat was from WWII if memory serves.

Ok, had a look at the link. Interesting. Got an agenda too, check out the gun control issue at the bottom of the page.

God, its so hard these days.......sources, sources, sources. Still better than unsubstantiated & unsupported opinion.

Hows Halloween In Thailand by the way?

B Good.

Danite. Wanted to say hell yes!

Good drills with aliveness & chaos & pumping adrenaline and a GOAL, top just slapping a pad in my opinion too. Senshido is one of the very few systems to recognise this and make them the main training activity.Rich see's this too.

We do them with real energy in the style/system/whatever I am currently training in, but not often enough. I had a bash night/grading laast thurs & the amount of stress you are under makes your motor skills & brain function go to shit.

Sitting on the sidelines for the last 20 mins was very interesting. Seeing people do silly things in crash drills, like fighting the 3 people in front of them, rather than turning around & escaping. Becoming fixated on techniques that werent working & not transistioning to something else. Only constant exposure & correction will sort that out. I'm just as guilty.

Richie I mean every word I say!Hope you are enjoying your most excellent adventure in far away lands of Cathay and the like!

HI Black Ops, yes the senshido training is very good,how many times did someone ask a question and the response was "lets try it'!!!!Yes good scenario training will prove to the people involved what works and what doesnt, but it is strange how we can become creatures of habit and persist in behaviors that dont work.Sometimes when I run scenrios involving the fence and de -escalation I notice the defender stays enagaged far too long with the potential offender.I often ask, why do you even bother to engage so deeply when you have a way to tactically disengage or at least try to.I had to get over the politness training we all get and learn to be impolite to a degree and just mutter mumbo jumbo, "okay dude right on yeah I know what you mean blah blah blah" as I manouver out of the situation.It takes some work to get over previous conditioning and beliefs.Regards